Different kind of overdrive request

[Jared Lash]

So here's the deal. For dub stuff I'm running my Moog LPF with a fixed cutoff (no envelope, full mix etc) and I'd like the ability to add a bit of tube like grit at the end of my chain.

My first thought was the VT Bass but it simply doesn't work. Even with the Character knob all the way to the right, it sounds like it's all the way to the left when run after the LPF giving it that indistinct very fat tube sound with not so much grit as that farty, brassy sound.

In fact, I don't know if this has been mentioned before, but after some experimentation it certainly sounds like the character knob itself is a low pass filter. So the range of tones the VT is capable are very limited when using it as I am attempting to.

Anyway, what I'm looking for is something to add a bit of hair to my notes while not adding a buzzy sound. It needs to be thick and fat. I'm not sure I can find something that will work (short of a new amp) but I thought I'd ask.

Any thoughts?

[papasound]

Have you tried out the "Holy Fire" by Creation Audio?

[gnasher1993]

You should try the Ashdown Hyperdrive if you're looking for grit. It's ugly but it's great for adding a little bit of grit and bite. Do you want me to go record a clip of said 'grit'?

[Mudfuzz]

Originally Posted by TheBigO

Anyway, what I'm looking for is something to add a bit of hair to my notes while not adding a buzzy sound. It needs to be thick and fat. I'm not sure I can find something that will work (short of a new amp) but I thought I'd ask.

Any thoughts?

Are you trying to do all this with one pedal?
My go-to Dub sound ATM it a DE KP through a old Hogsfoot.

[Jared Lash]

Originally Posted by papasound

Have you tried out the "Holy Fire" by Creation Audio?

That was certainly a thought. It seems like it would be a good choice for adding a bit of dirt without changing the character of the deep lows. If bongo still has a DOD FX25 maybe I can convince him to try the Holy Fire after it.

Originally Posted by gnasher1993

You should try the Ashdown Hyperdrive if you're looking for grit. It's ugly but it's great for adding a little bit of grit and bite. Do you want me to go record a clip of said 'grit'?

Yeah, a clip would be great if you don't mind

Originally Posted by Mudfuzz

Are you trying to do all this with one pedal?
My go-to Dub sound ATM it a DE KP through a old Hogsfoot.

No, my board is built around dub/synth stuff. I just want an overdrive to add a bit of tubey grit AFTER the Moog low pass filter does its thing. But I'd love to hear your dub tone. I'm always interested in checking out other people's setups and tones.

[Smallequestrian]

Look at the Pork Loin. I basically use it for adding a tube like tone to my very clean SS rig. I think the clean blend might make it a good match for you.

[Mudfuzz]

Originally Posted by TheBigO

No, my board is built around dub/synth stuff. I just want an overdrive to add a bit of tubey grit AFTER the Moog low pass filter does its thing. But I'd love to hear your dub tone. I'm always interested in checking out other people's setups and tones.

I'll see if I can record something soon, in the way of that combo.
Here is a clip of the KP set on medium gain for the time being.

[Jared Lash]

I was going to respond to a post but it looks like the poster deleted it. Anyway, I recorded a quick clip to show some things.

Basically I played clean and then through the Moog to show the dub tone that I often use. After that I engaged the VT Bass (it is after the Moog in the signal chain) to show why it doesn't work.

The VT adds a lot of noise because I've got the character knob completely cranked. Yet it sounds like it's in the opposite position. As I play I change the Moog's cutoff with an expression pedal (all the way up then back down) so you can hear the change in the VT Bass. Again, I think the character knob IS some kind of low pass filter based on what I'm hearing.

Anyway, here's the clip.

[latkingz781]

+1 VT. I love it.

[gnasher1993]

I'll get a clip of the Hyperdrive some time this weekend. My amp's dead

[Jared Lash]

Originally Posted by latkingz781

+1 VT. I love it.

[gnasher1993]

Originally Posted by TheBigO

Haha, I'm not sure he read your first post .

[nad]

To me it sounds like you need a dirt box that responds well to whatever EQ you send into it. The two that I've come across that do this are the Polish Love and 3Xfx Fatman, but I think the former would be too buzzy and the latter isn't the most natural sound in the world. Maybe a Germanium B:Assmaster, so the clean blend keeps the Moog fatness while adding hair on top? That might be too buzzy as well though (and you probably aren't looking for a fuzz anyhow), but could possibly be tamed with the switches a bit, and keeping the fuzz volume turned down a bit.

EDIT: Or maybe get another Blue Berry. Wouldn't need the Moog in front of it then.

Originally Posted by latkingz781

+1 VT. I love it.

Dude. Seriously? Wow.

[Jared Lash]

Originally Posted by nad

To me it sounds like you need a dirt box that responds well to whatever EQ you send into it. The two that I've come across that do this are the Polish Love and 3Xfx Fatman, but I think the former would be too buzzy and the latter isn't the most natural sound in the world. Maybe a Germanium B:Assmaster, so the clean blend keeps the Moog fatness while adding hair on top? That might be too buzzy as well though (and you probably aren't looking for a fuzz anyhow), but could possibly be tamed with the switches a bit, and keeping the fuzz volume turned down a bit.

EDIT: Or maybe get another Blue Berry. Wouldn't need the Moog in front of it then.

Don't think the Blueberry hasn't already crossed my mind. I've even done a quick search of the classifieds.

Yeah, you hit on the main difficulty - I need a dirtbox that will respond similarly regardless of what EQ'd signal I send into it.

The thing that was disappointing about the VT Bass is that I can't even get a good dub tone with it by itself which was something I COULD do with the BDDI. Different style, but here's a clip of one of my drummers and I with a BDDI shaped tone that is along the lines of what I want, though I'd like a bit more gain than this clip. Maybe another BDDI is the ticket?

Clippity clip.

[Mudfuzz]

Originally Posted by TheBigO

Anyway, here's the clip.

I think a Hematoma might get close to that sound, I really don't like that pedal very much but it does get close to the sound you posted.

[jucas]

VT...

...but before the lowpass and increase the moog's clean blend a bit. Just let a bit of the dirt get through, and keep the VT pretty lowpassed.

Or, just as a total long shot, an overdrive that doesn't necessarily keep lows as well and has a clean blend. Maybe something tubescreamer-y for the mid hump, roll back the highs, and blend in mostly the moog's lowpass signal? (is the sparkledrive a TS with a blend? there's gotta be a few available)

I suggest those without actual experience with the pedals involved, but my opinion is that clipping a lowpass signal without getting a similar flabby, brassy kinda sound is tough. So, rather than try a bunch of pedals that are all clipping the same frequencies in subtly different ways, I'd try to work around it and just clip a slightly different range or change the order its clipped in.

edit... i took a while typing and missed the VT not being good on its own... substitute BDDI in before the moog and try?

[warwick.hoy]

Originally Posted by TheBigO

I was going to respond to a post but it looks like the poster deleted it. Anyway, I recorded a quick clip to show some things.

Basically I played clean and then through the Moog to show the dub tone that I often use. After that I engaged the VT Bass (it is after the Moog in the signal chain) to show why it doesn't work.

The VT adds a lot of noise because I've got the character knob completely cranked. Yet it sounds like it's in the opposite position. As I play I change the Moog's cutoff with an expression pedal (all the way up then back down) so you can hear the change in the VT Bass. Again, I think the character knob IS some kind of low pass filter based on what I'm hearing.

Anyway, here's the clip.

That was me. I thought better of my post, as it really only seemed to toot my own horn. And no,...it sounds like a dub tone, not that organ sound you get from an wet OC-2.

[Jared Lash]

Originally Posted by Mudfuzz

I think a Hematoma might get close to that sound, I really don't like that pedal very much but it does get close to the sound you posted.

You quoted my first clip which is a sound I DON'T like, at least when the VT Bass is engaged. But yes, the Hematoma could also get that sound. I wasn't terribly fond of that pedal either.

Originally Posted by jucas

VT...

...but before the lowpass and increase the moog's clean blend a bit. Just let a bit of the dirt get through, and keep the VT pretty lowpassed.

Or, just as a total long shot, an overdrive that doesn't necessarily keep lows as well and has a clean blend. Maybe something tubescreamer-y for the mid hump, roll back the highs, and blend in mostly the moog's lowpass signal? (is the sparkledrive a TS with a blend? there's gotta be a few available)

I suggest those without actual experience with the pedals involved, but my opinion is that clipping a lowpass signal without getting a similar flabby, brassy kinda sound is tough. So, rather than try a bunch of pedals that are all clipping the same frequencies in subtly different ways, I'd try to work around it and just clip a slightly different range or change the order its clipped in.

edit... i took a while typing and missed the VT not being good on its own... substitute BDDI in before the moog and try?

Lotsa good stuff here.

Perhaps an OD with a clean blend is the answer.

Yeah, I did try the VT Bass before the Moog and even played with the blend but wasn't happy with that setup either. Ideally the OD could go after the Moog as it will likely end up on my second "optional" board, but I could rearrange things (swap it for the BMS maybe) if I found the right pedal.

And the BDDI had the advantage of being able to do dubby and gritty all by itself which is certainly an option as well. I'd be fine with turning off the Moog when I wanted deep and gritty vs deep and clean if there were a pedal that were good at doing both. The BDDI isn't bad, but not ideal for my needs. But it would put a DI on my board again which isn't a bad idea.

Any other thoughts?

[TrevorOfDoom]

i'd suggest a GeminiDrive or something similar with frequency shelving, but alas...

[Mudfuzz]

Originally Posted by TheBigO

You quoted my first clip which is a sound I DON'T like..........Any other thoughts?

Do you have any reference to anything that sounds remotely like what you want [clips, vids, hieroglyphs ect] or is this totally unobtainable and in your head ATM