Dirt pedals that handle less harmonic intervals well

St Drogo · #1 09-01-2010, 12:36 PM

I'm looking for an agressive, big sounding dirt pedal (so probably a fuzz) that handles the less harmonic intervals well.

I'm not sure if that is the correct English term is for what I mean, so to clarify: When you sound a root and an octave together, it's a very "pure" or harmonic sound (obviously). Root and fifth is the next purest or most consonant (?) sounding interval. These mostly sound great with a dirt pedal. But all other, less consonant intervals from a third on down just sound muddy and indistinct when played through any dirt.

This is of course to be expected to a degree. But I was wondering if there is something out there that can pull off some clarity in these situations, without drastically lowering the gain or something. I kind of doubt it THB, I guess it comes with the territory somewhat, but still. Any ideas?

EDIT: This is kinda difficult to research on teh internets, because youtube video's or soundclips seldom play more than one note together, nevermind a root and a seventh or ninth or whathaveyou.

Chowowbus · #2 09-01-2010, 01:56 PM

Have you tried any tech 21 sansamp products yet?

rcubed · #3 09-01-2010, 01:57 PM

You might be thinking about the difference between odd and even harmonic distortion.

BassBrass · #4 09-01-2010, 02:04 PM

On my board now the only dirt I'd turn to for hearing non-octave or 5th chords would be the Xotic BB Pre (then it goes through a sansamp VT Bass). Back when I was playing a lot of chords all the time I was using 2 amps, w/ a Boss CE1 (stereo, one side uneffected) and a Boss Analog delay for slap-back on the chorus amp and no dirt, old Carvin bass, set neck with ebony fretboard, lots of midrange and sustain forever. (the bass itself has a lot to do with hearing chords)

kevteop · #5 09-01-2010, 02:11 PM

Didn't Eddie Van Halen famously de-tune his B string to avoid getting that throbbing effect from playing distorted thirds?

I don't think it's something you'll fix with a different pedal, it's just what happens with the temperament of your guitar tuning.

Taylor Livingston · #6 09-01-2010, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevteop

Didn't Eddie Van Halen famously de-tune his B string to avoid getting that throbbing effect from playing distorted thirds?

I don't think it's something you'll fix with a different pedal, it's just what happens with the temperament of your guitar tuning.

Well, there are some circuits which will produce fewer intermodulation artifacts than others, so it's definitely a reasonable quest to try to find one like that. Multi-band distortion is one good way to achieve this.

St Drogo · #7 09-01-2010, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chowowbus

Have you tried any tech 21 sansamp products yet?

No, they've always been out of my pricerange, but I've recently started a new job, so they might be a viable option for me in a week or two. Any one particular you meant? Because I gather it's a reasonably extensive line?

Quote:

Originally Posted by rcubed

You might be thinking about the difference between odd and even harmonic distortion.

I don't think I am. I think odd and even harmonics has to do with the distorted waveform being symmetrical, right? I thought that was more to do with the character of the distortion than with intervals. But I might be wrong. What would be better for more clarity then? Even, I take it? I think there was a boss overdrive that had even harmonics as an option, wasn't there?

Quote:

Originally Posted by BassBrass

On my board now the only dirt I'd turn to for hearing non-octave or 5th chords would be the Xotic BB Pre (then it goes through a sansamp VT Bass). Back when I was playing a lot of chords all the time I was using 2 amps, w/ a Boss CE1 (stereo, one side uneffected) and a Boss Analog delay for slap-back on the chorus amp and no dirt, old Carvin bass, set neck with ebony fretboard, lots of midrange and sustain forever. (the bass itself has a lot to do with hearing chords)

Yeah, as I said above I've recently started a new job, so when the money comes pouring in I plan to upgrade my setup across the board. A new bass is definitely among the plans

So that might do a lot for me.

That second setup you were talking about btw, with the two amps and the chorus sounds like it would sound killer! Just out of curiosity, could you run us a bit through the signalpath? You used the chorus for splitting at the end I take it? And what amps were you using?

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevteop

Didn't Eddie Van Halen famously de-tune his B string to avoid getting that throbbing effect from playing distorted thirds?

I don't think it's something you'll fix with a different pedal, it's just what happens with the temperament of your guitar tuning.

Yeah, that's what I'm afraid for, but it never hurts to question your beliefs.

BTW, I never heard that Van Halen story. How would that work? He would detune his b so as to avoid playing thirds altogether? But I hear a lot of major thirds on van halen records, so that's probably not it. Was it to stop it from sympathetic ringing or something?

Point of interest maybe btw: I live a little under 100 feet from the house where Eddie was born. Well, not sure about if he was born there, but he did live there as a little kid, before they moved to America. A friend of my dads used to be their backdoor neighbour and he used to pick on Eddie all the time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taylor Livingston

Well, there are some circuits which will produce fewer intermodulation artifacts than others, so it's definitely a reasonable quest to try to find one like that. Multi-band distortion is one good way to achieve this.

Oh yeah, I heard a bit about multiband distortion, I'm very interested! I was planning on buying one of those soundblox bass multiwave distortions, but that was just because of the cool sound. It never really occured to me it might help with different interval problems. Nice suggestion! Do you know of any other manufacturers that use multiband distortion?

kevteop · #8 09-01-2010, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by St Drogo

BTW, I never heard that Van Halen story. How would that work? He would detune his b so as to avoid playing thirds altogether? But I hear a lot of major thirds on van halen records, so that's probably not it. Was it to stop it from sympathetic ringing or something?

I don't know exactly. When I was a kid I had a metal guitarist mate who was always messing with stuff like that because he'd heard some shredder was doing it, and I think this is one of those stories. AFAIK it was just a slight adjustment to the tuning of his B to make the third have less of a tremolo effect against the root when distorted. No doubt it mucked his tuning up for other stuff though.

Taylor Livingston · #9 09-01-2010, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevteop

No doubt it mucked his tuning up for other stuff though.

Hmm...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_ZZI0ZX82M

kevteop · #10 09-01-2010, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taylor Livingston

Hmm...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_ZZI0ZX82M

Oh that is a corker!

Laurent · #11 09-01-2010, 10:23 PM

For aggressive and big sounding the AMT Bass Pig wins.
It is very, very aggresive. No problem cutting through a mix with this.
You will be heard!

St Drogo · #12 09-02-2010, 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taylor Livingston

Hmm...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_ZZI0ZX82M

Heh, never knew Van Halen had bagpipes in their band.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laurent

For aggressive and big sounding the AMT Bass Pig wins.
It is very, very aggresive. No problem cutting through a mix with this.
You will be heard!

Oh being heard is not the problem, believe me. It's mostly what is being heard. But I'll look into it, ty.

warwick.hoy · #13 09-02-2010, 01:09 AM

The Source Audio Multi-wave excells at taking those dissonant intervals and making them warble pretty clearly. It's not a strait up distortion though.

itswac · #14 09-02-2010, 07:25 AM

Here is the link to the demo video for the multiwave:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKEWgOc_IBM

I made sure to play some chords in it so that you can hear that this pedal was designed for precisely what you are describing.

BassBrass · #15 09-02-2010, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by St Drogo

N
That second setup you were talking about btw, with the two amps and the chorus sounds like it would sound killer! Just out of curiosity, could you run us a bit through the signalpath? You used the chorus for splitting at the end I take it? And what amps were you using?

Um...that was around 1990 and my music & volume wasn't as loud as now...I was using a Peavey mkIV into a Peavey cab w/15" Blackwiddow for my uneffected sound and either a Trace Elliot 10" bass combo or a separate Acoustic amp/cab for the chorus amp. I used a Yamaha bass compressor and the 2 Boss pedals, the stereo chorus was 2nd to last, delay after that. I still have that old Boss chorus because none of the new ones have that sound on the chorus side, seems like more of a vibrato until you combine it with the dry side...then it's piano like. These days I'm using overdrive and distortion w filters too all the time and no choruses so octaves and 5ths are great, but 3rds 4ths and octave & thirds (like A on Es and C# on Gs) would simply not be heard. Even on the "wild side"...
(Someone in the old band just put up this on YouTube, it's my sound in 1992 without the low end due to MP3 (and some 1992 engineering dogma), my best 4 note bass line...the bass in the video is a dummy, you hear my 81 Carvin ...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNUkSP09cic )

fryBASS · #16 09-02-2010, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by itswac

Here is the link to the demo video for the multiwave:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKEWgOc_IBM

I made sure to play some chords in it so that you can hear that this pedal was designed for precisely what you are describing.

Oh yeahhhhhhhh! Need to get me one of those!

St Drogo · #17 09-02-2010, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BassBrass

Um...that was around 1990 and my music & volume wasn't as loud as now...I was using a Peavey mkIV into a Peavey cab w/15" Blackwiddow for my uneffected sound and either a Trace Elliot 10" bass combo or a separate Acoustic amp/cab for the chorus amp. I used a Yamaha bass compressor and the 2 Boss pedals, the stereo chorus was 2nd to last, delay after that. I still have that old Boss chorus because none of the new ones have that sound on the chorus side, seems like more of a vibrato until you combine it with the dry side...then it's piano like. These days I'm using overdrive and distortion w filters too all the time and no choruses so octaves and 5ths are great, but 3rds 4ths and octave & thirds (like A on Es and C# on Gs) would simply not be heard. Even on the "wild side"...
(Someone in the old band just put up this on YouTube, it's my sound in 1992 without the low end due to MP3 (and some 1992 engineering dogma), my best 4 note bass line...the bass in the video is a dummy, you hear my 81 Carvin ...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNUkSP09cic )

Wow! Nice sound man! I'm also a big fan of old peavey stuff, so two thumbs up.

Can't really stand your singer, though

Quote:

Originally Posted by itswac

Here is the link to the demo video for the multiwave:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKEWgOc_IBM

I made sure to play some chords in it so that you can hear that this pedal was designed for precisely what you are describing.

Oh you're that guy in the video? Let me first compliment your playing then, I saw you in another video for the same pedal that was some sort of jam in a small warehouse with a drummer. I really like your style man!

And I was already very interested in that pedal, it sounds exciting.

EDIT: this video does clear up a bit what it exactly is, I thought it was more like a synth. the sheer extensiveness of the pedal is a bit overwhelming though. I personally'd rather try the simpler version. I think you also have a version without the eq, right?

itswac · #18 09-07-2010, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by St Drogo

Oh you're that guy in the video? Let me first compliment your playing then, I saw you in another video for the same pedal that was some sort of jam in a small warehouse with a drummer. I really like your style man!

Thank you sir! I'm hoping to get Greg back in the warehouse for a ludicrously tasty Soundblox Bass Envelope Filter drum and bass jam.