Disappointed With Blending

[eshears]

Has anyone else tried blending their clean signal with their effected signal and been disappointed with the results?

I finally got a custom Barge VFB-2 (no feedback loop, and 2 separate blend levels). I was stoked and hooked everything up. So far...eh...

I was expecting more bottom end and punch...especially with my OD and fuzz. Instead, even blending just a little clean in seems to take away some of the oomph that I love about my effects in the first place! I got some interesting sounds that were kinda cool with my Deep Impact, but I always preferred the completely effected signal - no matter how much clean I blended in. Am I alone here?

Now, to be fair, I've only tried this by myself at low volumes. Will the results of blending make a bigger impact when playing at higher volumes w/ the band?

[bongomania]

It can be hit or miss. One thing that catches some people unawares is that some distortion circuits flip the signal to an inverted phase. It is inconsequential when used by itself, but can cause some signal loss when combined with the original signal, making the overall sound weaker or thinner. Another thing is that blending may sound better with hi-fi rigs or bi-amped rigs, that can better reproduce the range of tones. But even beyond all that, it can just be hit or miss in terms of how good it sounds. I have both a phase-switchable blender and a hi-fi rig, and sometimes the blending just doesn't sound awesome with certain effects. But then again, sometimes it's killer!

[uly_]

Hi there matey, I hear exactly what you're saying there.

I've got a VFB-2 myself and tried it out with an overdrive pedal in the loop for serveral gigs now. Every time I step on the VFB to turn it on, the soundman looks at me with the: "where the hell did the bass go!? Turn that thing off!!!!"-face. The bass is completely buried in the mix, even if I set the blend at 9 o'clock and pushing the volume on the OD pedal.
As I see it, the "problem" is, that when you turn the blend knob clockwise (for more effect), you're also turning down the clean volume.

I mailed Geoff to ask if the pedal could be made more like a regular mixer where you can control the amount of clean signal and whatever there's in the loop, individually. This way the clean volume stays at unity. Never heard anything from him about it

[Jazz Ad]

Gee it's no rocket science.
Distortions make a huge bump in the medium range. This has 2 effects.
First it seems that you lose a lot of lows, second you get a lot of punch and people easily hear you.
If you blend clean signal back into the mix, you will lose punch and gain lows.
It's just a matter of finding the right blend.

Originally Posted by uly_

I mailed Geoff to ask if the pedal could be made more like a regular mixer where you can control the amount of clean signal and whatever there's in the loop, individually. This way the clean volume stays at unity.

The Boss LS-2 does this perfectly and a million other things for less than a Barge but it's not hype enough for most gear snobs on this board.

[bassbrad]

I almost always had unsatisfying results when using a blender pedal but now I use a mixer and even a cheapie mixer does a more satisfactory job. Right now I am blending a DI signal with 1 or 2 seperate loops and getting some pretty nice results.

[Higgie]

Originally Posted by uly_

Hi there matey, I hear exactly what you're saying there.

I've got a VFB-2 myself and tried it out with an overdrive pedal in the loop for serveral gigs now. Every time I step on the VFB to turn it on, the soundman looks at me with the: "where the hell did the bass go!? Turn that thing off!!!!"-face. The bass is completely buried in the mix, even if I set the blend at 9 o'clock and pushing the volume on the OD pedal.
As I see it, the "problem" is, that when you turn the blend knob clockwise (for more effect), you're also turning down the clean volume.

I mailed Geoff to ask if the pedal could be made more like a regular mixer where you can control the amount of clean signal and whatever there's in the loop, individually. This way the clean volume stays at unity. Never heard anything from him about it

You could ask Geoff to install a Passive Effected Volume control so you can boost the blended signal to the volume you want. That might work?

[Jazz Ad]

No, that won't work since the whole pedal is buffered. You need an active gain control.
Once again, that's asking the pedal things it's not made for.

[Mudfuzz]

Originally Posted by Higgie

You could ask Geoff to install a Passive Effected Volume control so you can boost the blended signal to the volume you want. That might work?

Or just put a boost pedal in the blend-loop.

[bassterix]

Does anybody have this problem with the X-Blender?

I hope not, because I got one on its way.

[bongomania]

The X-Blender is the one I use, and IMO that phase-switch function is invaluable when blending with dirt fx, for the reason mentioned above. But again, whether any one effect sounds good to you blended is a crap shoot regardless.

[Earwaxsculptor]

I chose the X blender because of the phase switch and blend/100% wet footswitch. Overall I am impressed by the unit, I like it a lot with the whammy pedal, but I too have found it is hit or miss with Fuzz/Dist circuits.

[ChocolateTV]

Originally Posted by Jazz Ad

The Boss LS-2 does this perfectly and a million other things for less than a Barge but it's not hype enough for most gear snobs on this board.

So, is this the general consensus? The LS-2 is the way to go? Is the lack of inverted phase a problem or does it not matter in 'mini-mixer' applications like this?

[Crabby]

I have the stock Barge unit and am pretty sure I will never use the feedback loop. I have three overdrives in the loop now and find that blending the overdrive with clean signal works really well with my Fulltone Bassdrive and EHX Little Big Muff, but was disappointing with my HAO Rust Ride.

I haven't tried the blender with filters, delays, chorus ect yet but will have to spend some time messing with it.

Note: using the blender with heavy fuzz really helps when also using a wah pedal as the wah sounds so much fuller with some clean signal.

[seanm]

Blending works in some cases, and not in others. Bongomania mentions phase inversion but an even bigger problem is that almost all pedals are going to shift the phase. All EQ has some phase shift. If you then mix the clean signal with the phase shifted signal it is going to be effected.

At best you get some loss of volume. This is the best case since it is easy to add gain. At worst you end up with the clean and effected signals sounding like they are coming from separate sources rather than sounding like a blend.

And as other have mentioned, sometimes the loss of the low end is a good thing!

[Mudfuzz]

Originally Posted by Crabby

I have the stock Barge unit and am pretty sure I will never use the feedback loop. I have three overdrives in the loop now and find that blending the overdrive with clean signal works really well with my Fulltone Bassdrive and EHX Little Big Muff, but was disappointing with my HAO Rust Ride.

I haven't tried the blender with filters, delays, chorus ect yet but will have to spend some time messing with it.

Note: using the blender with heavy fuzz really helps when also using a wah pedal as the wah sounds so much fuller with some clean signal.

Funny I got my Barge to use with my Rust ride and always liked the sound for the most part, but then I'm not using my blend pedal to retain my bass sound so much as get a bi-amped sound wit out buying another large tube amp [yet].

On the other hand I am using a EQ pedal in the loop after my other pedals to achieve the sound I want, and I'm fine with that, I get the sounds "I" want.


Oh..... My signal path within my blend-loop is: HAO Rust Boost, HAO The Roar [I use the boost to even out the signal to the Roar] Guyatone TZ2, Dunlop 105q Wah, HAO Rust Ride and then a Boss PQ-3B

[PhatBasstard]

I have the VFB-2 also and have to run the blend knob at 9 o'clock to make sure the dry bass signal is the same volume with the loop in as with it out. Since this is 3/4 away from the effects side I have to run the output of my multi-FX pedal all the way up for the wet signal to be heard enough.

[assboglin]

It's worth mentioning that I've used some distortion pedals (Z Vex Box of Rock, which is awesome) that alter the attack enough that you can hear the two different attacks when blending the clean signal, which sounds terrible. You get a clicky noise on the attack. Very disappointing since on paper the clean blend looks so good.

[SnakeAnthony]

I met a local lutier/electronics guy tonight at a coffee house, and he was showing me all of these AWESOME guitars that he'd modded with onboard effects and what not, and I asked about modding pedals, and he said what ever it was, he could do it. I asked about modding my Little Big Muff to include some clean signal, and maybe a second switch for a mid boost. He said he could do both for around $40.

Do you think I'd experience similar issues with the blending being on board in the pedal?

[bongomania]

Be sure he does an active blend, not a passive one. Passive sucks tone.

[SnakeAnthony]

I'll make sure to mention it. Thanks Bongo.