Distortion and DI

letsgethandsome · #1 03-04-2013, 06:11 AM

Hey TBer's... Question for you all. Not sure if this should be here or in Live Sound but it seems like Effects is a more active place.

So, I had been thinking about getting a nice bass DI to use for gigs instead of relying on whatever 30 year old beat up black box generic DI the sound guy pulls out of his bag. Something simple like a Radial JDI. But then I've read in some threads on here that Dirt/OD and the like do not sound too great through DI. Most sound guys around here aren't into miking a cab for bass....

I'm wondering if anyone has any thought's/ experience/ suggestions on the matter?

DeltaPhoenix · #2 03-04-2013, 06:20 AM

Bring your own Mic and little stand.

Meddle · #3 03-04-2013, 06:22 AM

Use a cabinet sim of some sort. A whole bunch of digitech pedals ship with them included as a 2nd output.

letsgethandsome · #4 03-04-2013, 06:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeltaPhoenix

Bring your own Mic and little stand.

I do like this idea! lol.

I'm sure I could get some of the regular guys to do it no problem - but I'm also sure we'll end up on gigs where we have little control and this won't be an option.

Thanks...

Bakkster_Man · #5 03-04-2013, 06:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meddle

Use a cabinet sim of some sort. A whole bunch of digitech pedals ship with them included as a 2nd output.

Ditto. I've found my Big Muff sounds much better when I run my Tone Hammer after it on AGS mode which has a speaker simulating high rolloff. And the Tone Hammer functions as a DI as well, which is extra convenient.

Swift713 · #6 03-04-2013, 07:05 AM

I've been fiddling with a parametric eq to get a sort of speaker emulation roll off without too much color. I'm basically trying to sound like my fEarful 12/6 (no tweeter) which is pretty flat until somewhere around 3-5 kHz I think.
[sfx] makes the Micro Screaminator which does this sort of thing as well.

letsgethandsome · #7 03-04-2013, 08:18 AM

Anyone have any experience with a Palmer PDI-09

Sounds interesting and promising

spector_boogie · #8 03-04-2013, 08:25 AM

If you can mic it, and the FOH guy won't berate you for it, definitely do it.
I tend to go Post-DI from my amp head and that's the best compromise for me, and I use two dirt/OD pedals. Just to a box, even with a JDI (I have one), does not sound very good to my ears, so much so that I just don't use those two FX when I have to go into a "box" DI.

dannybuoy · #9 03-04-2013, 10:52 AM

The Markbass Super Booster DI is an option, it had the magic VLE (vintage loudspeaker emulator) knob which rolls off the highs like a tone control of a passive bass.
Beware that many speaker sims are designed for guitar and roll off the lows.

letsgethandsome · #10 03-04-2013, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dannybuoy

The Markbass Super Booster DI is an option, it had the magic VLE (vintage loudspeaker emulator) knob which rolls off the highs like a tone control of a passive bass.
Beware that many speaker sims are designed for guitar and roll off the lows.

Hmmm. Looks interesting not sure how I've missed this one. Have you used it as a DI? Do you like?

odineye · #11 03-04-2013, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by letsgethandsome

Anyone have any experience with a Palmer PDI-09

Sounds interesting and promising

Funny, I just put this up as an option for someone else in the 'amps' forum. Great little box, stick it between you head and your cabinet and you've got all the benefits of mic'ing without the muss and fuss. Working FOH, I'll take this over a mic any day.

irvinz · #12 03-04-2013, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bakkster_Man

Ditto. I've found my Big Muff sounds much better when I run my Tone Hammer after it on AGS mode which has a speaker simulating high rolloff. And the Tone Hammer functions as a DI as well, which is extra convenient.

Do you know if the tone hammer has the rolls off even without the AGS turned on? Thanks!

letsgethandsome · #13 03-04-2013, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by odineye

Funny, I just put this up as an option for someone else in the 'amps' forum. Great little box, stick it between you head and your cabinet and you've got all the benefits of mic'ing without the muss and fuss. Working FOH, I'll take this over a mic any day.

Awesome thanks for the feedback! Sounds like you have some FOH experience -- what about the Palmer versus like a Sans Amp type DI to the board?

**bassboysam** · #14 03-04-2013, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irvinz

Do you know if the tone hammer has the rolls off even without the AGS turned on? Thanks!

it does not. the AGS is the speaker sim. however with the gain set around 9 o'clock it won't add any additional dirt to your tone.

The Palmer seems pretty cool, small and simple, but i have never tried it. here are some freq response curves for it in the various modes.

http://www.franknitsch.com/speaker-s...=pdi-09-normal

http://www.franknitsch.com/speaker-s...=pdi-09-bright

http://www.franknitsch.com/speaker-s...=pdi-09-mellow

i think it would work well.

letsgethandsome · #15 03-04-2013, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bassboysam

it does not. the AGS is the speaker sim. however with the gain set around 9 o'clock it won't add any additional dirt to your tone.

The Palmer seems pretty cool, small and simple, but i have never tried it. here are some freq response curves for it in the various modes.

http://www.franknitsch.com/speaker-s...=pdi-09-normal

http://www.franknitsch.com/speaker-s...=pdi-09-bright

http://www.franknitsch.com/speaker-s...=pdi-09-mellow

i think it would work well.

Dude- thanks for the info and charts. VERY helpful. Looks like the Palmer would be pretty good in Mellow or Normal setting. Many THANKS!

odineye · #16 03-04-2013, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by letsgethandsome

Awesome thanks for the feedback! Sounds like you have some FOH experience -- what about the Palmer versus like a Sans Amp type DI to the board?

The Sans Amp type are nice if you have your sound shaped at your pedal board already. There's a lot to be said for having to worry about nothing more than a pedal board. If on the other hand you use your amp head for tone shaping as well, then you want to get as much of 'your' tone FOH as possible. Which is where the cab sim DI steps in. I've also found the cab sims to work a whole lot better for dirt and fuzz. Whereas a lot of DI's out there don't attenuate the highs any, the Cab sim does. so when you stomp on your insanely crispy fuzz pedal, you're not taking my head off. You happy+Me happy=the whole crowd happy.

Working behind the desk, I've always preferred the cab sim DI option. It's always led to a quicker mix setup because I have a better idea of what the player is looking for onstage.

letsgethandsome · #17 03-04-2013, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by odineye

Whereas a lot of DI's out there don't attenuate the highs any, the Cab sim does. so when you stomp on your insanely crispy fuzz pedal, you're not taking my head off. You happy+Me happy=the whole crowd happy. Working behind the desk, I've always preferred the cab sim DI option. It's always led to a quicker mix setup because I have a better idea of what the player is looking for onstage.

Thank you VERY much for the input!

father of fires · #18 03-04-2013, 12:57 PM

I've done a bunch of research on this topic and I learned early on that there really wasn't a bass specific DI with a bass cab sim. Some things would work but there were compromises.

I've actually been working on building a passive bass DI/cab sim. I have a hobbyist background in electronics and thought it would be easy to build but this has taken me months of research to figure out the design. As cliche as it might sound I'm trying to capture the frequency response of an 8x10 cab.

I hope to have it finished soon.

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who loves dirt and wants to be DI'd.

liveburning274 · #19 03-04-2013, 01:07 PM

How about the Darkglass B7K? Definitely dirt + DI.

letsgethandsome · #20 03-04-2013, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by father of fires

I've done a bunch of research on this topic and I learned early on that there really wasn't a bass specific DI with a bass cab sim. Some things would work but there were compromises.

I've actually been working on building a passive bass DI/cab sim. I have a hobbyist background in electronics and thought it would be easy to build but this has taken me months of research to figure out the design. As cliche as it might sound I'm trying to capture the frequency response of an 8x10 cab.

I hope to have it finished soon.

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who loves dirt and wants to be DI'd.

It's kind of surprising to me a bass specific DI such as this doesn't really exist! This is just my latest journey down a rabbit hole

Back into gigging recently and the project I'm doing allows me to use effects which is a lot of fun. Never used a lot of effects before. Got this nice pedal board now and a few live recordings in and I haven't been blown away by my live sound, especially with the dirt pedal on. I start looking into this and down the hole I go

So, how far are you away from working prototypes and are you planning to build and sell at any point? I would def be interested. 8x10 seems like a great place to start!