Do i really need a DI?

[Footbutt]

okay, so i use "a lot" of effects, combining pitchshifts with verbs and all that crap. i have an Ampeg V4 that i love and use when i play live.

my band tends to play at all manner of places: nice establishments with a great sound guy, hole in the wall dives in podunk towns in Pennsylvania, local Columbus places that know us by heart but still have limited PA gear...

so do i really need a DI? some sound guys mic my cab (which i prefer) while others place a Direct Box on top of the amp to grab a signal. i don't want to have my tone being colored going into my amp.

needless to say, i'm a DI newbie. teach me, oh wise ones.

[Beck McCartney]

Well, a good passive DI won't color your sound. It's just a different way of getting your signal to the PA (as opposed to micing your cab). Most sound guys prefer to use a DI because it doesn't pick up bleed from other instruments on stage, and it's usually a cleaner (less EQ'ed) signal, which gives them more control over the sound. The down side to this, is that the front of house is not getting the wonderful sound of your V4... just your bass, and effects going direct to the board. I prefer to use a DI [u]and[u] mic my cab, but most random sound guys don't care enough to take the extra time to do this.

So to answer your question, no, you don't technically need a DI. But it is faster, and easier to get good tone to the front of house by using a DI, and you'll definitely piss less sound guys off . You shouldn't have to buy one though. Most venues have them available for you to use.

[Vic Winters]

It's not necessary, but it's nice to have one just in case. Even something like a $40 Whirlwind will suffice in a pinch.

[JazznFunk]

All good DI's have a parallel output mode that sends your signal straight back out so that you can feed an amp, etc. Your concern about tonal suckage carries some weight if it's a REALLY cheap DI. I do not recommend anything on the lower-end scale except the Whirlwind IMP2 box. That's my backup DI and it's served me well for years. I own both a Countryman Type 85 and a Radial JDI for regular gig use. In most cases my DI's are better than the sound tech's and they would rather use mine. Hit all your effects before the DI, go into the DI as the last item in the chain, and use the parallel out to your amp. You get all the control over your sound that you want.

Originally Posted by Footbutt

okay, so i use "a lot" of effects, combining pitchshifts with verbs and all that crap. i have an Ampeg V4 that i love and use when i play live.

my band tends to play at all manner of places: nice establishments with a great sound guy, hole in the wall dives in podunk towns in Pennsylvania, local Columbus places that know us by heart but still have limited PA gear...

so do i really need a DI? some sound guys mic my cab (which i prefer) while others place a Direct Box on top of the amp to grab a signal. i don't want to have my tone being colored going into my amp.

needless to say, i'm a DI newbie. teach me, oh wise ones.

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by JazznFunk

All good DI's have a parallel output mode that sends your signal straight back out so that you can feed an amp, etc. Your concern about tonal suckage carries some weight if it's a REALLY cheap DI. I do not recommend anything on the lower-end scale except the Whirlwind IMP2 box. That's my backup DI and it's served me well for years. I own both a Countryman Type 85 and a Radial JDI for regular gig use. In most cases my DI's are better than the sound tech's and they would rather use mine. Hit all your effects before the DI, go into the DI as the last item in the chain, and use the parallel out to your amp. You get all the control over your sound that you want.

+1. i prefer to mic my ampeg rigs, but if you have to use a di, that's the best way to use it.

[Swift713]

I thought the JDI had a feature whereby it can be plugged into an amps speaker jack thereby capturing the flavor of the amp.

[scotts42]

Originally Posted by Swift713

I thought the JDI had a feature whereby it can be plugged into an amps speaker jack thereby capturing the flavor of the amp.

Yes it does, but at 4ohms. So make sure you do the math unlike to 1 time I tried it.

[SeanSaliSE]

Originally Posted by scotts42

Yes it does, but at 4ohms. So make sure you do the math unlike to 1 time I tried it.

If you have a really nice amp with it's own direct out, using a JDI might be pointless in a live setting....


Just saying

[JazznFunk]

Not necessarily so. Some heads are not always pre-EQ (as I learned with my Eden Nemesis NA320 and WTX-500), and the circuitry and transformers in the JDI are very different from what routes through even my best Eden heads. I love the JDI for the character and warmth it imparts, while still letting the tone of my bass shine. I could go on and on, but running through a separate DI is a very smart move on many levels, not least of which is if your amp dies onstage during a gig, you can continue on in the house/monitors.

Originally Posted by SeanSaliSE

If you have a really nice amp with it's own direct out, using a JDI might be pointless in a live setting....


Just saying

[Bassist30]

so do i really need a DI? YES And to answer the question. It won't color your sound going into an amp. nice article about it. Simply said.
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jun0...es/diboxes.asp

[dcr]

Originally Posted by JazznFunk

All good DI's have a parallel output mode that sends your signal straight back out so that you can feed an amp, etc. Your concern about tonal suckage carries some weight if it's a REALLY cheap DI. I do not recommend anything on the lower-end scale except the Whirlwind IMP2 box. That's my backup DI and it's served me well for years. I own both a Countryman Type 85 and a Radial JDI for regular gig use. In most cases my DI's are better than the sound tech's and they would rather use mine. Hit all your effects before the DI, go into the DI as the last item in the chain, and use the parallel out to your amp. You get all the control over your sound that you want.

Originally Posted by JimmyM

+1. i prefer to mic my ampeg rigs, but if you have to use a di, that's the best way to use it.

What they said!




dcr

[DosiYanarchy]

Up until now, I've used a Tech 21 VTbass last in my chain (before the DI) so that the House still gets 'my' tone and so does the bass amp (which ill usually leave flat)

Its a compromise - Id rather be playing a real tube amp and have it mic'd up - but the chances are where I play that:

a) you're going to be DI'd before your signal hits the amp
B) backline will be behinger or laney or Peavey
c) location and transport costs will prohibit bringing your own gear.

I dont think i've ever had a cab mic'd in the last 6/7 years - I mainly play in London, it might be different elsewhere.

So all my tone is on my board, having said that - I'm making a step towards tubes - i've got a Orange Terror Bass (currently awaiting a replacement, as mine was faulty) and one day want to get a Matamp GT200 or an Orange AD200b.

My advice is get a nice DI (as mentioned above) and if you're worried about the way your tone/effects soind DI'd - grab something like the VTbass, its speaker simulation save the day for me when im using effects - mainly fuzz/distortion (not much sounds worse to my ears than DI'd fuzz)

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by DosiYanarchy

Up until now, I've used a Tech 21 VTbass last in my chain (before the DI) so that the House still gets 'my' tone and so does the bass amp (which ill usually leave flat)

Its a compromise - Id rather be playing a real tube amp and have it mic'd up - but the chances are where I play that:

a) you're going to be DI'd before your signal hits the amp
B) backline will be behinger or laney or Peavey
c) location and transport costs will prohibit bringing your own gear.

I dont think i've ever had a cab mic'd in the last 6/7 years - I mainly play in London, it might be different elsewhere.

So all my tone is on my board, having said that - I'm making a step towards tubes - i've got a Orange Terror Bass (currently awaiting a replacement, as mine was faulty) and one day want to get a Matamp GT200 or an Orange AD200b.

My advice is get a nice DI (as mentioned above) and if you're worried about the way your tone/effects soind DI'd - grab something like the VTbass, its speaker simulation save the day for me when im using effects - mainly fuzz/distortion (not much sounds worse to my ears than DI'd fuzz)

+1. i love to mic but it's a di world for bassists, so if a mic'ed amp is your thing, make sure you at least have a tolerable di box that will prevent the soundman from totally screwing your sound.

[iiipopes]

I've used an inexpensive Carvin passive DI box for 20 years for those times the sound man needed such. It has 2 1/4 inch jacks on the high Z side, so I can take my bass through whatever FX before going into the amp I desire, and have that tone go straight to board, although I rarely, if ever, run FX. My bass and my playing is so clean most sound men have only added a touch of compression for their sake so they could slot the mix as they desire.

[MNAirHead]

As a rule, carry one with you --- in a pinch sound guys like a pedal vs on board as it's a shorter learning curve and more consistent between options.

[rockstarbassist]

I use the Post-EQ out on my M9 but my Radial JDI goes with me everywhere, no questions asked. When I was rocking the 400+ I used it in between the Amp and Cab w/ the Speaker function and it sounded pretty good. Not as full and beefy as being miked up, but better than the 400+'s onboard DI, for sure.

[cnltb]

Originally Posted by Footbutt

okay, so i use "a lot" of effects, combining pitchshifts with verbs and all that crap. i have an Ampeg V4 that i love and use when i play live.

my band tends to play at all manner of places: nice establishments with a great sound guy, hole in the wall dives in podunk towns in Pennsylvania, local Columbus places that know us by heart but still have limited PA gear...

so do i really need a DI? some sound guys mic my cab (which i prefer) while others place a Direct Box on top of the amp to grab a signal. i don't want to have my tone being colored going into my amp.

needless to say, i'm a DI newbie. teach me, oh wise ones.

with a signal chain as you describe it, I would not worry about a DI colouring your sound as all the effects will do that anyways I recon. The Ampeg is not all too clear either.
However there are many,many DI boxes out there with varying degrees of coloration.
I would try some and make up your mind.

People I speak with tend to like the country man as well as radial DIs.
And of course there are some pre amps and heads that offer good inbuilt DIs.

The one important thing for life sound which is way more important than equipment is this...get along with your sound man.
Respect them, say thank you etc.
They make or break your sound.

[arkainzeye]

in my past (just recently started playing again) I had MORE sound guys that wanted to go DI than mic it... so i wont buy an Amp that doesnt have a DI with pre and post EQ with a gain knob on it. i say this because in the past i ran into situations where i got crappy sounds because the sound guy didnt have the proper mics to mic a bass with a Low B and then i went through some crappy DI accessory type box. NOW i want to have all BASSES covered lol (pun intended!) =) i hate to be at the mercy of some Unequipted sound guy.....

[D-G]

I was scolded early on by one of the first sound guys I ever worked, "A bass player should ALWAYS have a DI with them!"

I'm sure some of the tone snobs will kill me for this but I can't really pick out the difference between my cheap $40 DI box and the highly touted Radials, and in a pinch it's better than nothing(especially if you blow a tube or a fuse). Most built-in DIs grab the signal before the preamp processes it.

However the built-in DI on my Mesa Walkabout Scout is not only affected by the preamp knobs but by the master volume as well. Mesa's explanation was so that you could get the exact tone you hear from the amp into the PA system. The sound guy at the Hard Rock Cafe, whom I respect, said he hates DIs like that since most bassists usually get a really boomy, bassy tone onstage and if he has 20,000 watts going to a few subwoofers, he's not going to want to have to work with a signal that's already overly EQ'ed or bassy to begin with.

On the other hand, I played thru the Mesa running the built-in DI to the PA at a local fair a few weeks later and got complemented several times on my tone after so...

Most clubs don't mic for several of the reasons other posters listed(bleed, etc.) so ideally, if you really like the sound of your amp & cabinet then buy your own mic & stand to bring with you to gigs. Of course if you're only playing one set and there's less than 10 minutes to set up between bands you may want to go the quick & dirty route & just use the house DI box.

[Footbutt]

thank you all for the suggestions.

over the past six months i've played at about 10 different places and they all had the different sound setups.

even though i only had one sound guy ask if i had a DI, i still plan on getting one. do they make ones that i can snag a 9V lead from my pedalboard to power one? i'd hate to rely on Phantom Power that may or may not exist at a venue. as much as i'd like to get a Tech21something, i'm very hesitant to go down that road.

funny, now that i think about it... i do have an old Line 6 Bass POD that i used to record with. though it's too bulky and awkward to try to integrate it into my setup, even if i know its workings backward and forward.