Does anybody know what vocoder is this? (Paul Randolph)

[Maximbass]

Hi everybody!

Does anybody know what vocoder does Paul Randolph (Amp Fiddler, Jazzanova) use?
Very nice sound and great bass range!..

Here is an example http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pirlVo0MYL4

Thanks.

[bongomania]

I don't know, but that is the first time I've ever thought a bass sounded really good through a vocoder--so I'd like to know what it is too! FWIW I have owned vocoders by Roland, Korg, MAM, and a couple of oddball off-brands; as much as I love vocoder, I never could get them to sound right with bass, so I sold them off. That's just to say that I wouldn't assume anything about which brand Randolph is using. Thanks for the link!

[Maximbass]

That's right! It seems to be not real vocoder, because I don't hear any carrier that vocoder usually produces. It looks like a unit (units?) that can be operated by microphone applying some wahh, wohh etc. effects to the bass guitar sound..

I've just tried Electo-Harmonix V256.. Sorry, it can't do that ((

[markjazzbassist]

no idea on the vocoder but i LOVE amp fiddler and paul randolph. amp is so funky and he is the modern P-funk IMO, and paul's cool too. i like his bass playing and his solo work (as said name or just randolph) is cool too.

[fightthepower]

Digitech Talker?

[Maximbass]

Ohh yes, Fightthepower!!!
we are getting closer I think!! And I hope!...

[bongomania]

Originally Posted by Maximbass

It seems to be not real vocoder, because I don't hear any carrier that vocoder usually produces. It looks like a unit (units?) that can be operated by microphone applying some wahh, wohh etc. effects to the bass guitar sound.

Actually, that is normal for a real vocoder. A vocoder uses two audio signals: one that is the source of the sound, and the other that controls the filtering of that sound. In the cases where you hear a synthesized tone "shaped" by the vocalist, the fixed synth tone is the sound source, and the voice shaped that tone. In the case of a bassist or guitarist, there is no synth tone--the bass/guitar signal is the sound source, and again the voice does the shaping.

The problem that I have experienced is that in order to get good-sounding results, the instrument source sounds have to be in the same general frequency range as a human voice. Consequently the only times I got or heard good results using a vocoder on bass, was when playing the medium-to-high notes.

What's remarkable about the tone in that video is that it seems to react positively to his mouth shaping even on the low notes! That's the specific difference we need to discover.

[Maximbass]

We really do! )

Well, you are right when you say that the instrument source sounds have to be in the same general frequency range as a human voice. It's ok, you need to sing just the same note that you're playing. And it's not necessary that singing tone has to be the same octave.
But.. There is such thing called "Pitch"! At least one of six control-pots at the Electro-Harmonix V256. So, it is that "fixed synth tone" I told you about. For ex. in noon-position of the pot the tone is C3. You can play and sing all about C-major, C-minor or A-minor and it would be sounds quite well. But if you start to play something around C#-scales, F#- or H-scales you will get the same C3 "fixed synth tone" superimposed on the notes you play!
According to this you need to shift that pitch manually for the note required.That's the main problem (for my case). You play, sing, but the voice does the shaping of the "fixed synth tone" and not the note it-self.

As for Paul Randolph's video we do hear no fixed tones, every note is separate and has it's own shaping.

Fightthepower has mentioned Digitech Talker; there are some clips on Youtube of that unit, but mostly with distortion guitar. We really need to hear how does it work with clean signal, preferably bass).
But even with distortion sound we don't hear that "fixed synth tone" on first two presets.

And it makes me happier! ))

[fightthepower]

There was a video posted of Ron Long in a thread a while back, using the Digitech Talker and it sounded great... and iirc just like the video you posted, but it unfortunately has been taken down I'd almost be willing to bet that it is the one; I know Jauqox sold one and markjazzbassist has commented on his as well, and iirc they're supposed to work well with bass- maybe they'll chime in and be able to confirm. I'm going off of a foggy memory and hearsay, but that's the word as far as I know..

*edit* I thought I saw the tube attached to the mic stand, but after re-watching just now, there is a close-up of him on the mic, and I don't see it.. so I don't know what it is.

[markjazzbassist]

i never owned a talkbox unfortunately. my best friend has an original ehx golden throat, but that's as close as i get to it.

[Maximbass]

Got it!

The subject is really Digitech Talker which is no longer in production..

Thanks for all of you!)

[RCCollins]

this definitely sounds more like a talkbox than a vocoder. A vocoder's filters don;t respond to mouth shape

[bongomania]

Well, they do, just not in the same obvious way. The resonant peaks that a vocoder responds to are created by our mouth shapes.

Glad to find out it was the Digitech unit! Now I'll have to buy one and try it out.