Does the Submarine Designer ENHANCE tone or just shape it?

jibreel · #1 06-10-2010, 06:15 PM

I have been gassing for one of these pedals and since Os is temporarily out of circulation, I thought I would ask those of you who own this pedal about it.

I have gone through a bunch of effects pedals [ single and multi ] wanting to enhance fretless tone. They don't really do it. I really love the tone my basses have but there is the never ending " trying to make it just a little bit better" syndrome.

I tried the Shape EQ pedal which does amazing shaping but did not " add " anything to the tone.

Does the Submarine Desiger ENHANCE the tone or just shape it?

By enhance, I do not mean that when the bass eq knob is turned, there is more bass etc etc.

Subjective terms I know.

takfar · #2 06-10-2010, 06:21 PM

It supposedly sweetens the tone by"adding some harmonics", which means it probably clips the signal just a tad, which could be an "enhancement". Haven't tried it myself, tho... Would be curious to try it if I had a chance, but not curious enough to order it with no firsthand experience.

cybersnyder · #3 06-10-2010, 06:28 PM

Definitely fattens the sound. Here is a quote from Os where he describes it:

Electronix Submarine

I believe that the original goal of the pedal was to take the refined sound that you get from a well done bass recording and put it into a pedal.

I go back and forth between preferring the two knob version for it's simplicity and the DE for it's additional tone shaping.

Mr. Pickles · #4 06-10-2010, 06:29 PM

The Submarine circuit adds even or second order harmonics (I forget which), which enhances the tone. It's like adding a barely perceptible "distortion" to the signal (this is not clipping distortion). The result is a fuller low end and glossy sheen on the top. I use mine (Sub MkII) on fretless all the time. It's perfect for this application. The DE adds additional tone shaping options as you know.

EDIt: Ha ha - see above. He posted as I was writing this.

jibreel · #5 06-10-2010, 06:38 PM

You guys are killing me. I want, I want !!!!!!!

1kinal · #6 06-10-2010, 06:48 PM

+1 to everything said before.

I have both versions (DE and two-knobs) and while I love both, I'd recommend the regular version. I keep my DE on the pedalboard mostly set like a regular version and never change it.

I keep my yellow pedal in my gigbag for when I don't feel like bringing my pedalboard to a rehearsal or a gig.

Ideally I'd do the opposite (yellow on pedalboard and DE in gig bag) but the DE cannot run on battery power.

It's the only pedal I use always-ON. It's THAT good.

If I could only keep three pedals, the submarine would definately be one of the three along with an octaver and a fuzz or enveloppe.

Mr. Pickles · #7 06-10-2010, 06:50 PM

You won't need the Designer if you keep the PARA EQ. Just find a used Sub and you'll be golden.

FWIW, I have a passive Corvette fretless and the tone is very sterile. The Sub rectifies that to a large extent. I've also thought about trying the Redeemer circuit in the 'Vette.

jibreel · #8 06-10-2010, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Pickles

You won't need the Designer if you keep the PARA EQ. Just find a used Sub and you'll be golden.

This is an important piece of advice.... A bit easier to find a used Sub than to get a Designer. Especially under current conditions.

Would others agree about this?

And big thanks to Cybersynder, Mr. Pickles and 1Kinal for this info!!

Gassing for a Bongo review....

bongomania · #9 06-10-2010, 08:14 PM

The big difference between the regular and Designer Subs is the DE has more EQ controls. So since you already have what is acknowledged to be one of the best EQ pedals out there, and you like its tone, I don't see any benefit to holding out for a DE Sub.

That said, my (very subjective and fickle) impression is that the Sub won't do anything significant for your tone that the Empress isn't already doing. While it's true that it adds some harmonics, it's very subtle that way, and the tonal effect it has sounds to me just like the tonal effect any good active preamp would have on a passive bass. IOW many preamps and EQ's, whether onboard or outboard, have a degree of coloration that is very close to what the Sub provides.

To be clear, I am not dissing the Sub--it's a great pedal. But just as I constantly have to warn people not to expect so much tonal improvement from a compressor, the same is true IMO of the Sub.

If you get a chance, check out the Durham Sex Drive. I think you'd like it. I just sold mine, but only because I want to get the newer version in the smaller housing.

jibreel · #10 06-10-2010, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bongomania

The big difference between the regular and Designer Subs is the DE has more EQ controls. So since you already have what is acknowledged to be one of the best EQ pedals out there, and you like its tone, I don't see any benefit to holding out for a DE Sub.

That said, my (very subjective and fickle) impression is that the Sub won't do anything significant for your tone that the Empress isn't already doing. While it's true that it adds some harmonics, it's very subtle that way, and the tonal effect it has sounds to me just like the tonal effect any good active preamp would have on a passive bass. IOW many preamps and EQ's, whether onboard or outboard, have a degree of coloration that is very close to what the Sub provides.

To be clear, I am not dissing the Sub--it's a great pedal. But just as I constantly have to warn people not to expect so much tonal improvement from a compressor, the same is true IMO of the Sub.

If you get a chance, check out the Durham Sex Drive. I think you'd like it. I just sold mine, but only because I want to get the newer version in the smaller housing.

Thanks as always !!!!!!

Livewire · #11 06-11-2010, 07:27 AM

I bought one a few weeks ago from Bongo and I broke the 1khz toggle switch when it was put in my gig bag (stupid I know!). It still works and everything, just the 1khz toggle does nothing anymore... It's a really nice pedal, really fattens the tone but not exactly what I was looking for. If you're looking for more of an eq pedal, then this won't do it, or at least it didn't do it for me. If you already like your tone and just want fatten it up with harmonics and lows, then yeah it's a really nice pedal. I'm going to sell it if I can get the toggle switch fixed or just sell it with the broken switch and maybe the buyer can fix it themselves.

1kinal · #12 06-11-2010, 07:00 PM

I agree with Bongo about not expecting too much from it. Yes it's good, really good but it makes no magic. If you plug a ****** bass into it, it will sound like a good ****** bass. So it makes the bass you put into it better? Yes. Does it changes the sound of the bass so much that you don't even recognize it because it's so good? No.

Good point about not needing the DE if you keep the para-eq. Like I said before, even with the DE on my pedalboard, I mostly use it as the two knobs version, always setup the same with the exception of the 1k switch+less body when I slap (which is mostly never)

I've never tried the para-eq but it's highly regarded as one if not the best so you have something good in your hands. The submarine will makes things better but see it more as a preamp than a real effect which you turn on and off depending of the song. Big chances are you'll want the submarine to be ON at all times.

jibreel · #13 06-11-2010, 10:00 PM

I bought the broken switch Submarine Designer from Livewire.
I bravely [ given my soldering skills !!] , soldered in a new sub-micro toggle on/off/on switch and everything works great now.

For a while I was having excessive popping noise when I moved the switches but that is gone now. All good.

Bongos comment above about not expecting to much was right on of course and there is some hiss noticeable.

However, I really like this pedal and it is a keeper. In fact, it has knocked the Empress ParaEQ out as my tone shaping pedal.