ear plug effect on using effects,...

[theunknowndude]

Hi Guys,...

didn't know where to put this so figure this is it (mods please move if not the right place!)... I have an issue with our practices in that our drummer is crazy loud,... being from a black metal band it figures,... to compensate our guitarist turns up really loud too,... doesn't bother me too much cos I can still hear myself when I'm playing except that now im using ear plugs (not very good ones, going to fix this soon) all it seems to do is cut out my sound from my amp and only slightly lessen the drums and guitar amp,... so I can still hear them fine,... but have a huge problem trying to hear myself!

when playing normally its not so bad that I cant hear myself at all,... just harder to focus on I guess,... but with effects on, I seem to dissapear from the mix,... and this is with distortions etc that I know if I take my earplugs out I am good in the mix,...

any suggestions on what to do here,... or do I just have to suck it up and get proper professional ear plugs fitted?? feels like that valnott pedal is taking effect or something lol, like as soon as I step on anything with my earplugs in I lose all of what appears to be a hard to hear low end

[cheapbasslovin]

Tell your band mates to turn the @$%# down.

I think it's either that or try different earplugs, I'm afraid. The last thing may be to move your gear or your self around the room until you find a place that your stuff is putting out as potent a signal as the guitard or druhmmer.

If I never get into another gig where the volume can't seem to stop rising, it will be too soon.

Good luck.

[MAMMOTHvolume]

Originally Posted by theunknowndude

Hi Guys,...

didn't know where to put this so figure this is it (mods please move if not the right place!)... I have an issue with our practices in that our drummer is crazy loud,... being from a black metal band it figures,... to compensate our guitarist turns up really loud too,... doesn't bother me too much cos I can still hear myself when I'm playing except that now im using ear plugs (not very good ones, going to fix this soon) all it seems to do is cut out my sound from my amp and only slightly lessen the drums and guitar amp,... so I can still hear them fine,... but have a huge problem trying to hear myself!

when playing normally its not so bad that I cant hear myself at all,... just harder to focus on I guess,... but with effects on, I seem to dissapear from the mix,... and this is with distortions etc that I know if I take my earplugs out I am good in the mix,...

any suggestions on what to do here,... or do I just have to suck it up and get proper professional ear plugs fitted?? feels like that valnott pedal is taking effect or something lol, like as soon as I step on anything with my earplugs in I lose all of what appears to be a hard to hear low end

what distortion are you using? ear plug cut alot of the high end and normally leave the low end, so if your distortion loses alot of the low end that could be the problem

[warwick.hoy]

I use these and while they still cut out a lot of definition they certainly allow me to hear a lot better than those orange butt plugs. I can actually hear my fuzz quite well with these in.

Also; try pumping up the mids on your amp to see if you can cut through the volume a bit better.

[pbd]

nothing like a good set of ear molds. They more evenly cut the frequencies you are hearing and sound more natural, just quieter. They are also more conforatable too.

Sometimes you can set yourselves up so you amp is facing you from accross the room and your guitar players amp is accross the room facing him, kicking thing up at your head can help too.

Todd

[theunknowndude]

thanks guys,... yeah I think I do need something that does that cuts better across the frequencies...

will also try the suggestion of moving gear around a bit,... and unfortunately with the noise battle,... we don't have a large room to practise in and the drummer is f'n loud,... I don't even want to contemplate hearing him mic'ed up!!!

[coreyfyfe]

Originally Posted by pbd

nothing like a good set of ear molds. They more evenly cut the frequencies you are hearing and sound more natural, just quieter. They are also more conforatable too.

Agreed. My school has a speach/hearing lab which does them, and my guitarist and I both went and got some done. They came with -15dB and -25dB filters. While they are pretty much evenly attenuated across the frequency range, there is a pretty strong drop off below 500Hz, so you do lose some bass, but overall this hasn't been an issue.

[shinobi]

drummer loud --> guitard louder --> you loudest ---> drummer even louder

i call this a feedback loop

cut the drummer

[theunknowndude]

Originally Posted by shinobi

drummer loud --> guitard louder --> you loudest ---> drummer even louder

i call this a feedback loop

cut the drummer

lol in a metal band?

it becomes a worst feedback loop when two guitarists and drummer are louder,....

[robgo]

I started using ear plugs recently. I found they helped me hear myself a lot better as they cut the high end and left the low. I've never heard the kick drum so clearly before! I couldn't hear any singing though, so they suck when I try bv.

All the types that I tried cut high freq so I suggest you try some different sorts. If you play with a loud drummer, you gotta have plugs!

[scotch]

GET YOURSELF SOME PROFESSIONAL EARPLUGS STAT!!!!

Sorry for yelling, but after almost 12 years of full-time gigging/recording - I have atypical tinnitus (ringing in the ears). Unfortunately, my 'ringing' is a constant low-frequency rumble in my right ear. While my overall hearing is still within the healthy range, the background rumbling makes sleeping & ultra-quiet environments unbearable!

If your band is so loud that you need earplugs- then do your ears a long-term favor and get some professional ear-mold filters made. They come in -9, -15 and -25 db versions. The -9 and -15 are the most popular w/ musicians & engineers. The -25 start to roll off high end. I use the -15db's & can still hear the full audio spectrum. They do take a few weeks to get used to, but are totally worth it! Mine cost about $200 USD w/ the 15db filters, earmold & hearing test.

I was told by some colleagues years ago to buy musicians earmolds & I waited too long.... Don't be an idiot like I was!

from:
http://www.etymotic.com/ephp/erme-wtb.aspx

[rasthedoctor]

Originally Posted by robgo

I couldn't hear any singing though, so they suck when I try bv.

I hear (rimshot!) you there. I find that I have to choose between plugs and singing, even using Hearos. It's a total bummer since [preaching to the choir] my drummer is WAY too loud [/preaching to the choir] and I sing.

[wetzelman1]

I forget where I heard this information, but there was something about being 10 ft away from subwoofers is the optimal distance for bass frequencies. I know in my tiny space I was able to turn my volume down a lot as soon as I moved my cab across the room.

I do use earplugs as well, a set that come with 2 different color sound attenuators( gc) and I just don't use either of the inserts and I get a pretty good low end.

http://www.vater.com/newproducts/product.cfm?M=287

[coreyfyfe]

Originally Posted by scotch

If your band is so loud that you need earplugs- then do your ears a long-term favor and get some professional ear-mold filters made. They come in -9, -15 and -25 db versions. The -9 and -15 are the most popular w/ musicians & engineers. The -25 start to roll off high end. I use the -15db's & can still hear the full audio spectrum. They do take a few weeks to get used to, but are totally worth it! Mine cost about $200 USD w/ the 15db filters, earmold & hearing test.

from:
http://www.etymotic.com/ephp/erme-wtb.aspx

These are the same ones I have, they're worth every penny and then some. The guitar and I both got them, but our drummer didn't and he complains every practice about having to use the orange plugs or the shooting range style ear protectors.

[bovine mind]

Originally Posted by wetzelman1

I forget where I heard this information, but there was something about being 10 ft away from subwoofers is the optimal distance for bass frequencies. I know in my tiny space I was able to turn my volume down a lot as soon as I moved my cab across the room.


http://www.vater.com/newproducts/product.cfm?M=287

i have this problem and hate it. i practice in a tiny room as well and can't feel or hear the lowest frequencies unless i'm practically standing outside of the room, even with an 810.

[dystopiate]

Originally Posted by coreyfyfe

These are the same ones I have, they're worth every penny and then some. The guitar and I both got them, but our drummer didn't and he complains every practice about having to use the orange plugs or the shooting range style ear protectors.

I have those too. Got the 25 dB attenuator, but probably should have gotten the 15. Best $200 piece of gear I own, especially when going to others' gigs and when I get off stage and some drunken person feels the best way to be heard in a loud environment is to yell directly into the hole in my ear at close range.

I spent a lot of time thinking about getting these before I did. Stupidly, I was using cost as an excuse to avoid getting them. I would use hearos and the like, but always take them out because it never sounded good/right. Ironically, I bought 2 basses and a rack full of gear at the same time I was rationalizing about the cost of the things. At this point, I'd sell gear just to get a pair of the earmolds.

They also come in a snazzy carrying case!

Get them!

[andvari7]

Originally Posted by scotch

GET YOURSELF SOME PROFESSIONAL EARPLUGS STAT!!!!

Sorry for yelling, but after almost 12 years of full-time gigging/recording - I have atypical tinnitus (ringing in the ears). Unfortunately, my 'ringing' is a constant low-frequency rumble in my right ear. While my overall hearing is still within the healthy range, the background rumbling makes sleeping & ultra-quiet environments unbearable!

If your band is so loud that you need earplugs- then do your ears a long-term favor and get some professional ear-mold filters made. They come in -9, -15 and -25 db versions. The -9 and -15 are the most popular w/ musicians & engineers. The -25 start to roll off high end. I use the -15db's & can still hear the full audio spectrum. They do take a few weeks to get used to, but are totally worth it! Mine cost about $200 USD w/ the 15db filters, earmold & hearing test.

I was told by some colleagues years ago to buy musicians earmolds & I waited too long.... Don't be an idiot like I was!

from:
http://www.etymotic.com/ephp/erme-wtb.aspx

So, if we're to believe that second graph - the earplug attenuation line graph - then the foam plugs found on construction sites and at firing ranges - the kind I use - do protect the hearing, but they do too good a job. Does this mean that I've been wearing the wrong plugs for the past nine years?

Anyway, I got over the loud drummer + loud guitarist = no bass problem in high school by ceasing to care. I was told that I was audible by the other two bandmates, and since I knew what I was playing, it wasn't a huge loss for the band.

As for the effect the plugs had on my hearing my pedals in an individual setting, which is the only way I play right now, they are affected in the same manner as just a dry signal through my amp; which is, to say, deliberately muffled, and probably losing all sorts of clarity in the audible range. But, at the end of the day, I can still hear pretty well, and that's what counts.

[ga_edwards]

As other's have said, get some decent earplugs. I am going to get some custom moulded ones at some point as they have a much flatter response, but at the moment I've settled on Doc's Pro Plugs. The actual volume reduction isn't huge, but I prefer the tonal response compare to the etymotics and similar tree'flange style's. The Doc's reduce that painful top end from the cymbals and guitars with killing the note definition in the highs, so I can still hear everything clearly and don't have to adjust my eq to compensate for lack of high end. The old ones I used killed my mids and highs and just sounded muffled, to the point it was even harder to hear clearly.

Secondly, if you use a combo or relatively small cab, tilt it back to aim it at your head. The mids and high's are where the note definition and a lot of the 'effect' in effects live are directional. If it's facing forward they are projecting straight past your knees and won't hear them clearly over the rest of the band. Tilt it back and you should not only hear your self more clearly, but also hear a tone closer to what the audience would hear.

[theunknowndude]

thanks for the feedback...

yeah if I use my 2X10 I have it vertical not horizontal,...

and I have tinnitus already as a result of a side effect from heart medication

so yeah will be looking at new proper plugs as soon as I can afford it!

[scotch]

Originally Posted by andvari7

So, if we're to believe that second graph - the earplug attenuation line graph - then the foam plugs found on construction sites and at firing ranges - the kind I use - do protect the hearing, but they do too good a job. Does this mean that I've been wearing the wrong plugs for the past nine years?
...

Yes, if you want to hear a more natural spectrum.

I attempted to use the yellow industrial foam earplugs for years, but would always get frustrated by the lack of clarity & end up yanking them out. They're better than nothing for protecting your hearing, but not very inspiring for trying to make music!