EB Vol Pedal sucking volume

[Bassnut62]

Hi

I just got an Ernie Ball 25k Stereo Volume Pedal (model 6167).

I am using it in mono mode thru channel A at moment and getting a noticeable drop in volume and maybe tone too.........Yes, when the pedal is maxed for volume, compared to the volume delivered without the EB6167 in the chain!!

Has anyone else noticed this problem or am I doing something wrong?

My current set up is as follows:
Sandberg California JM4 in passive mode = > Keeley 4-knob compressor => Woolly Mammoth => Groove Regulator (with Mastotron in FX loop) => EHX Bass Balls => EHX Small Stone => EHX Small Clone => EB6167 Vol Pedal => Fender Bassman 135 head => MusicMan 1x15 cab

[bongomania]

If the volume drop is mostly a problem when your effects are bypassed, then that's because you got the 25K volume pedal. It is designed to only work with active basses. You want the 250K one, for your bass in passive mode. However, with one or more of your effects engaged, 25K should not be such a problem. If the problem happens with effects engaged, then something might be screwy with the pedal--maybe the pot needs cleaning, or there's some other interference.

[Bassnut62]

Thanks for that - I assumed that as I am using effects in the chain that meant that I needed the 25k pedal.

So can I just check:
1. does the use of effects have little to do with which volume pedal to get?
2. is it all about whether the bass signal going through the effects is active or passive?

[bongomania]

A "true bypass" pedal (like the Keeley, Zvex, Groove R., and some EHX pedals) makes it so when the pedals are all switched off, the output impedance of the bass is what the input impedance of the volume pedal "sees". If any of the pedals have a buffered bypass, or if any of the pedals are switched on, then the volume pedal will not "see" the bass, so to speak. It will only see the buffer in between them.

So what matters is whether the volume pedal sees a passive signal (your bass through a chain of true bypass pedals that are switched off), or an active signal (any effect that is switched "on", or any pedal with a buffered bypass).

So with that info, re-read my previous post and let me know if it's still not clear.

[phatbass]

These are passive pedals (no battery or power socket), right? It could be as simple as the internal potentiometer being positioned so that it doesn't open up fully. these pots can be rotated in the mounting and it may be that when the pedal is at full on position, the pot isn't quite fully open. It's as simple as loosening the nut that holds the pot and rotating it so that when the pedal is fully on, so is the pot.

This changes the sweep of the pedal and means that the minimum volume position is now not quite as quiet.

[Bassnut62]

Having done the tests Bongo mentioned earlier, it does seem this is about the passive/active/fx pedal signals and not the EB adjustment of the pot.

thanks Bongo - your explanations are all very clear.

What is not clear now though is what it means when a pedal is buffered and how I can tell if any of mine are?

[bongomania]

It's not easy to tell sometimes; what I would do is a listening test; take apart the chain for a few minutes; take each of the EHX pedals (since the rest are TBP) one at a time, and set up a mini-chain where it's just:
bass --> one EHX pedal --> volume pedal --> amp
Then listen as you sweep the volume pedal up and down, with the EHX switched off; and then remove the EHX so it's just bass --> vol. pedal, and compare that against what you just heard.

If the volume pedal sounds worse when it's just bass --> vol. pedal than it does when the EHX was in the chain, then the EHX had a buffered bypass. If it sounds equally bad both ways, then the EHX probably had true bypass--but it's still not certain at that point whether anything is sketchy with the vol. pedal itself.

[cheapbasslovin]

If you get yourself a Boss, Digitech (not hardwire), or Tech 21 pedal, it will have a buffered bypass. I recommend a LS-2 because it's uses are virtually endless, it's cheap, and it will buffer your signal before the volume pedal. Or you could use an active bass, but that may adversely effect the Mammoth.

Outside of that the type of bypass used is difficult to determine.

Edit::: I've owned a version of each of those EHX pedals, and I'm reasonably certain that those will be either output bypassed or true bypass, but not buffered bypass.

[Bassnut62]

I did check the EB vol pedal by taking it in and out of chain with bass in both active and passive mode and with/without difference effects and the pedal worked fine with active bass into amp &/or thru pedal chain. So I do reckon this problem is about signal impedance &/or buffering with a passive bass signal when all pedals are in bypass mode.

Just to make volume pedal choices a little more difficult I normally use the bass in both active and passive mode for different songs. So do you all reckon I need a buffered volume pedal like Cheapbasslovin's suggestions?

Thanks for your patience and help

[cheapbasslovin]

Originally Posted by Bassnut62

I did check the EB vol pedal by taking it in and out of chain with bass in both active and passive mode and with/without difference effects and the pedal worked fine with active bass into amp &/or thru pedal chain. So I do reckon this problem is about signal impedance &/or buffering with a passive bass signal when all pedals are in bypass mode.

Just to make volume pedal choices a little more difficult I normally use the bass in both active and passive mode for different songs. So do you all reckon I need a buffered volume pedal like Cheapbasslovin's suggestions?

Thanks for your patience and help

I'm not suggesting a buffered volume pedal (I've never searched for one so I wouldn't know where to find one), just a buffer in your chain before the volume pedal.

The LS-2 is parallel loop/ blend pedal that you could use to switch your effects / add blend to an effect or run effects in parallel. Or you could just use it as a buffer after your chain, but before your volume pedal.

Any single buffered pedal between your bass and volume pedal should alleviate your problem, I just suggested something that is inexpensive and useful. You could just throw an LPB-1 set to unity (and left on all the time) in that spot and it would perform the buffering task nicely. It's up to you how you want to get the job done.

[Bassnut62]

got you! - I had assumed before buying the EB vol.ped. (used and cheap) that some of my FX pedals were buffered. So I now believe I am currently bufferless, especially as the EHXpedals are all the old-steel cased versions. So I think I will look into picking up a simple buffer of some kind; once I've completed all of Bongo's tests.

If it is a buffer that I need, does anyone know if there are any side-effects to consider in having a buffer?
like, do they negate the point of having true bypass pedals for a nice clean signal?

Thanks for the help

[cheapbasslovin]

Good buffers = Good

Bad Buffers = Bad

Boss are usually good, as are Tech 21, and I had a Digitech that wasn't too bad (to me). DOD's are not well loved. When you start to pile them on top of each other they can start to degrade your tone (each buffer alters your tone a little bit, the effect can be cumulative), but just one should treat you alright.

In truth a buffer before your EHX pedals should clean up your passive tone. If your EHX pedals are all bigger box versions, then they are almost certainly output bypass which puts some additional load on your pickups. This will be fixed with a buffer.

[bongomania]

I agree that having one really good-quality buffer in your chain can solve many problems. Some people buy a cheap pedal that happens to have a good-quality buffered bypass, and leave it in their chain always switched off! But of course there are pedals that are just buffers, or where they perform an additional useful always-on function like boost, EQ, tone-shaping, compression, etc.

Here's another thing to think about though: if the only problem you're having is the tone loss from the volume pedal, then one of the cheapest and easiest solutions is just to get the 250K version instead! 250K does not have any problem working with both passive and active signals.

[Bassnut62]

Actually I do have a Tech 21 Bost DLA that is in repair at the moment. So it sounds like I already own the solution! Hooray!

I didn't realise the 250k pedal can work with both passive and active though. That seems to defeat the point of having a 25k pedal to me. How confusing!

But there is another reason I went for a 25k vol pedal - I plan to put in a bypass and use channel B for expression control on a suped-up CoPilot Android that Adam is making for me. The Android will need 10-50k signal for expression control. I've been told this could work, so long as I don't want to use both volume and expression at the same time. Do either of you have any further opinions on that idea?

Ta

[cheapbasslovin]

I'm not that well versed in EB Volume pedals and their setup, but on the surface it sounds good. Good luck.

[Bassnut62]

thanks, it would be a very neat real-estate-saving solution, if it works!