Effects Pedal Makers: What's With the Jacks?

[Charley Umbria]

So here's something that's puzzled me for a while. Why do most effects pedal builders, both boutique and mass-production, put the input and output jacks on their pedals directly opposite each other?

Think about lining up a bunch of MXR-sized boxes on your pedal board. The output jack for one pedal is right next to the input jack on the next pedal. This causes you to: (A) double the distance between the two pedals, so the patch cable plugs can fit back to back or (B) offset the pedals up or down about an inch. Neither solution is ideal. The same problem occurs if you use a bunch of pedals from Ibanez, Boss, etc. If the output jack was moved just an inch (or less...?) in any direction, it would be a whole lot easier to squeeze pedals onto a board. Maybe raise one jack and lower the other?

Now, I realize that many effects pedals are jammed full of parts, and designers/builders can't always put everything exactly where they want. But, still, why isn't this something that's done?

BTW, sfx is one company that does offset the jacks on their smallest pedals. However, I suspect that this is due to the space limitations imposed by the narrow enclosure. Also, kudos to Spencer at 3Leaf for putting the jacks on the top of the Proton and his other pedals.

[chokeslam512]

I like it when they're the same relative location, it allows me to use the solid couplers rather than a messy looking patch cable. My question is, why does Eventide put the input on the left and the output on the right?

[Taylor Livingston]

There are many reasons, and everyone will have different ones. Like many of the customs of pedal design, much of the standard was set by MXR and Boss. MXR used offboard jacks in a box where there was not room to fit the jacks on the plane below the PCB, and assuming a roughly rectangular PCB, and the fact that the jacks should ideally go straight to the bypass switch*, the mechanical constraints suggested putting them where they were. At this time, it wasn't common, or really even possible, to have lots of effects on a pedalboard, so maximizing real estate was not the concern it is today, with many people using 10 or 20 pedals on a board.

*Since guitars and basses at the time were likely to be passive, this high impedance signal is vulnerable to noise, bleed, and feedback/motorboating, etc. The best way to obviate this danger is to make the wires from the jacks to the bypass switch as short as possible, and to not run them over the PCB, especially in high gain effects. This is all subverted when doing top-mounted jacks, which means that much more care must be taken in the PCB design and lead dress to avoid these issues.

Like many people, I have in the past personally objected to board-mounting hardware that receives mechanical stress, and board-mounting hardware that will be panel-mounted on different planes. Stress from multiple directions can crack PCB traces and pads. In talking to many musical instrument repair techs and designers of equipment for military/aerospace, etc. apps, these kinds of things tend to be the first failure point in any system that needs to take some abuse and keep working as designed. Others disagree though - there are people who study this as a career, so it can't be summed up very succinctly! I have begun to rethink this and may go in the other direction if my testing proves successful.

Staggering jacks can be tricky when they are not board-mounted. Also, since builders all have their side jacks at different points, staggering becomes less obviously an advantage, and even sometimes is counter-productive, when mixing pedals from different builders, as most people do.

So, there are a number of reasons, and for most people this wasn't much of an issue until recently. So now lots of builders are beginning to take a look at these form factor issues more seriously and doing lots of great work. It's a great time to be into pedals.

Interestingly, when I started redesigning everything to use top-mounted jacks, I received a number of requests to do side-mounted ones instead - a lot of people actually prefer it that way, partly because all of their other pedals are already like that. There is no solution that works for everybody, but what's great is that there are so many options out there now, that people can consider form factor in addition to sound and features when thinking about what pedal to get next.

[DeltaPhoenix]

Now you Know...and knowing is half the Battle....

[Charley Umbria]

Wow! Where else but TB are you gonna be able to get an answer like that? Thanks for the insight, Taylor. I didn't know about the problems involved with running bypass wiring across a PCB. Very interesting.

For what my amateur opinion's worth, I agree with you about not board-mounting jacks or other parts that receive external stress. I'm a big believer in providing a "soft link" between hard components whenever possible.

[Charley Umbria]

Originally Posted by chokeslam512

I like it when they're the same relative location, it allows me to use the solid couplers rather than a messy looking patch cable. My question is, why does Eventide put the input on the left and the output on the right?

Yeah, the couplers can be a real space-saver. I'm OK with the using them if the pedals are solidly mounted to a hard flat surface and the sides of both enclosures are parallel. The problem with Ibanez and some other manufacturers is that their pedals' sides taper slightly inwards from bottom to top. This design puts their jacks at an angle, which can stress the coupler, the pedal enclosure, or the jacks themselves.

So, OK, here's the second million dollar idea I'm going to give away on TB: Flexible "solid" couplers. Picture a standard straight coupler, but with a thick, tightly-wound spring as the barrel (or body). Sort of like a springy door stop with a 1/4" plug on either end. You could use a shorty between two Ibanez pedals, or a slightly longer version between, say, a Boss and an MXR.

Once you've made your fortune, a slightly worn mid-60's P-Bass will do just fine as thank-you.

[HolmeBass]

Great post Taylor. So much info and good thinking I felt my brain get a tiny bit bigger. Yay.

[Spencer!]

Originally Posted by Taylor Livingston

Like many people, I have in the past personally objected to board-mounting hardware that receives mechanical stress, and board-mounting hardware that will be panel-mounted on different planes. Stress from multiple directions can crack PCB traces and pads. In talking to many musical instrument repair techs and designers of equipment for military/aerospace, etc. apps, these kinds of things tend to be the first failure point in any system that needs to take some abuse and keep working as designed. Others disagree though - there are people who study this as a career, so it can't be summed up very succinctly! I have begun to rethink this and may go in the other direction if my testing proves successful.

A lot of people worry about the reliability of board-mounted jacks, but I haven't seen a single issue in 3 years of building pedals this way. I find that people don't stress jacks as much as one might think.

[onewebfoot]

Originally Posted by Taylor Livingston

Interestingly, when I started redesigning everything to use top-mounted jacks, I received a number of requests to do side-mounted ones instead - a lot of people actually prefer it that way, partly because all of their other pedals are already like that. There is no solution that works for everybody, but what's great is that there are so many options out there now, that people can consider form factor in addition to sound and features when thinking about what pedal to get next.

Though my pedals will remain few (no more than 3-4, plus DI preamp box and power brick, and loop/recorder pedal), it's the top-mounted jacks that are often the deciding factor for me, no matter what type of pedal I consider or actually buy (chorus, octave, compression, filter, toying with another type too), and I'm about done researching what I would like. (currently have 4 in-house, using all of them to some capacity, plus DI preamp box).

What's pending for me are the looper, compression pedal, plus possibly one effect in your notable category. Then I'm done shopping pedals. :-)

I like packing pedals as tightly next to eachother as possible, and top-mounted jacks do it for me. Every single category has options with top-mounted jacks. And most have side-jacked options, which I can understand, but it's top mounted for me.

Thank you for your deisgn in that department. I'll shop your product line next for that reason.

[ga_edwards]

Originally Posted by chokeslam512

I like it when they're the same relative location, it allows me to use the solid couplers rather than a messy looking patch cable. My question is, why does Eventide put the input on the left and the output on the right?

I've wondered for sometime why stomp boxes tend to run right to left, yet multifx units run left to right.

[Happynoj]

Originally Posted by ga_edwards

I've wondered for sometime why stomp boxes tend to run right to left, yet multifx units run left to right.

I just guessing here, but controls on pedals generally run left to right (sort of) because we read left to right, which may be why multis run left to right. However most players are right handed, so it makes sense to have the input for a pedal on the right, otherwise 90% of players would have their cable looped around their pedals to plug in.

[Charley Umbria]

Originally Posted by Spencer!

A lot of people worry about the reliability of board-mounted jacks, but I haven't seen a single issue in 3 years of building pedals this way. I find that people don't stress jacks as much as one might think.

Thanks for contributing, Spencer. Do you think that part of the reason you don't see as many problems with board-mounted jacks in your pedals has to do with price and demographics? *

In other words, I'm probably going to take much better care of my $179.00 Proton than the Danelectro or DeltaLab pedal that I got for less than 45 bucks at GC. I'd also be curious if higher-end pedals (like the GR2, for example) are more likely to be purchased by people who will mount them on a pedal board, only unplug them for the occasional rearrangement, and will keep the pedals in great condition, with an eye towards eventual trades or re-sale.

* Disclaimers: (1) These questions aside, I'm sure that the primary reason that 3Leaf doesn't have problems with their jacks is that Spencer builds a solid, top-quality product. I've been very happy with my Proton and am confident that even if it spent its days alternating between a ratty, cable-filled duffel bag and creaky, crooked, beer-stained bar stage floors, I would still be using it for many years to come. (2) Just so I don't come off sounding like too much of a cork-sniffer, I do believe that all gear, regardless of price, should be treated with respect and care. One of my favorite pedals is the EHX Nano Muff Overdrive, which definitely falls into the "less than 45 bucks at GC" category.

[warwick.hoy]

On an ever changing pedal board I'm not a big fan of those solid couplers. The stress of plugging and unplugging; not to mention consistent stomping on footswitches could potentially lead to damaged jacks and broken solder connections.

I'll add a caveat that this is just an unfounded opinion based on no actual real world experience; so YMMV.

I think a good solution to wiring up a cramped pedalboard with inconsistent I/O jack locations is spending a little money on solderless cable kits such as George L's or Lava Cables. The smaller form factor of the plugs and the omitted right angle "shank" (for lack of a better term) should give you more options and more space to work with.

[Gadgetjunky]

Originally Posted by warwick.hoy

On an ever changing pedal board I'm not a big fan of those solid couplers. The stress of plugging and unplugging; not to mention consistent stomping on footswitches could potentially lead to damaged jacks and broken solder connections.

I think you are right. I tried the solid coupler thing on boos pedals that had the jack in perfect alignment. But taking the pedals on and off while re-arranging was difficult and then just the little bit of play that having velcro on the bottom of the pedals creates could put stress on the jacks. And I had 2 different widths, the little silver 1/2 wide ones the 3/4" planet waves kind and the littel 1/2" ones put the pedals too close for me. So I've found that the 90 degree plugs put the exact distance I like between the pedals and give the expansion joint effect I think is a good idea, plus I've mix up the brands.

[russtolium]

On a semi related topic, I recently started to wonder why inputs are conventionally on the right and outputs on the left in the first place. Is it because whoever set the standard was in a country that reads right to left, like Japan? I tend to want to interpret a signal path in the same way as reading, so it goes against my natural left>right inclinations. Or maybe there's some other clever reason...

[Spencer!]

Originally Posted by Charley Umbria

Thanks for contributing, Spencer. Do you think that part of the reason you don't see as many problems with board-mounted jacks in your pedals has to do with price and demographics? *

That could be part of it. I use more durable jacks than the cheaper pedals, which helps. Many of my customers mount them to pedalboards where the jacks don't get stressed as much. I guess it all factors in. Even considering all that, ~3000 jacks without a failure is pretty good. I know that not ALL of my customers are that careful with their stuff. The most frequent failure point, by far, is the 3PDT stomp switch. My new compressor uses an SPST switch which is simpler in construction and much more durable.

[cheapbasslovin]

My gut instinct is that the failure rate on board mounted jacks is directly related to the quality of jack and how many connections are done that way at the same time.

Many Danelectro pedals don't even bother mounting the jacks to the casing. EHX has that cheeseball jack that they use with their nano pedals and then they don't even bother putting a nut on their switches mounting them to the pedal. If the jacks are solidly mounted to a solid enclosure, and the board is mounted in such a way that there is a little flexibility in the board and not the connection, I would imagine those connections could last quite a long time. However, if you have two jacks mounted such that pressure on one causes a counter pressure on the other, that could pose a problem. All in my not so scientific opinion.

[Reaper Man]

Originally Posted by DeltaPhoenix

Now you Know...and knowing is half the Battle....

then it's 25% blue lasers and 25% red lasers

[jesseRSA]

My quick two cents:
I prefer top-mounted jacks for ease of assembly. Any time you have jacks on the sides, it changes the way the box is put together and can severely limit the space you have to work with on the PCB for knobs, buttons, etc.
I also find top mounted easier to use in my personal experience.

One issue with top mounting is that the number of jacks directly determines the width of the pedal. If you're using both sides and the top (MXR/Boss style) you can squeeze more jacks into a smaller overall form factor.

We do occasionally use side mounted jacks as well but only in cases where we are going for a very small form factor.

Regarding PCB vs. panel mounting:
I think direct jack to board PCB mounting gives you a more reliable connection as long as you are relieving stress on the jack with an additional hardware nut mounting it to the jack panel.
In my experience, wired connections are much more likely to fail than PCB mounts.

[Charley Umbria]

Originally Posted by jesseRSA

My quick two cents:
I prefer top-mounted jacks for ease of assembly. Any time you have jacks on the sides, it changes the way the box is put together and can severely limit the space you have to work with on the PCB for knobs, buttons, etc.

Interesting insight, Jesse. I hadn't thought about the design and assembly benefits. Thanks!