effects in thrash/power metal?

[The Ethanator]

so yeah, heres some background:
i play in a thrash/power metal band. weve got 2 guitarists. one uses a metal muff, one uses a metal zone and zakk wylde wah. i show up to practice yesterday with 3 pedals: my ibanez pd7, digitech bass multichorus, and a big muff i bought at the gc yesterday on impulse (probably returning it this week, $ is tight). the first thing i heard was "woah, dude, bassists dont need distortion". one of my guitarists (who also plays bass) said "this is coming from a bass player, so dont take it personally, but dude, bass is meant to be felt, not heard. you dont need effects, cliff" (reference to cliff burton if you didnt know already)

the underlying question is: what effects can i use frequently in this kind of music, not lose the low end, and keep my bandmates happy? were covering iron maidens 'fear of the dark' at their schools battle of the bands in january, if that gives you any idea what were into. id prefer to save my chorus for slow songs with lengthy bass notes to add some color to it all. im getting a sansamp sometime when funds are better, so ill be able to dial in eqs and a tube-type tone, but what do you reccomend for bass in terms of actual effects?

side note on the muff: its a great pedal, but currently i cant justify the purchase, giving my band situation and money issues... returning it this week, and maybe getting the bass model at a later date. dry blend feature may be what im looking for

[BAW]

if your playing the maiden the bass should be heard, no matter what the bas should always be heard.

if its trash you want just dial in some good attack and add some over drive.

[bongomania]

Couple of thoughts:
1) Screw what the guitarist thinks, loads of people are biased against bass being used with effects but that doesn't make them right. The whole "felt not heard" thing is an ignorant and primitive outlook.

2) If you are serving the music (performing a support role) then it doesn't matter what you want, you do what the music needs. If the music doesn't need effects, don't use any. If it needs effects, what does it need? Don't ask us, we aren't in your band. I haven't heard "fear of the dark", did Harris use any effects on that recording? If you aren't sure, post a link to it and we can tell you. If he is using distortion, then by god the guitarist can go stuff himself. If Harris's tone is clean, then why would you want to mess with it when doing a cover tune?

3) All effects are good for bass. Read the FAQ, read some pages of this forum. Effects are not common in classic metal bass; a good overdrive is nice though. Search on 'overdrive' for ideas.

[Zappstorius]

You'll actually cut through better (when guitars are distorted) with a clean tone as opposed to adding dirt IMO. That doesn't mean you shouldn't use effects in a thrash band, but be selective when using them.

And since I assume that you play in an original band, I'd say just about every effect is fair game to use in a thrash/metal band setting.

[sonic assassin]

the fact that they called you cliff is quite a compliment. he was the king of thrash metal as far as im concerned.

a little bit of grit on the chunky passages cant really hurt. that upper midrange grind can be a lot of fun. i only use chorus for the really mellow bits, or when im trying to be alice in chains-ey.

bass needs to be felt a bit.. as well as heard audibly over the mix. i crank the high mids for maximum note articulation, and roll back the tone when i need to sit back.

if i had a whammy, id use it, but im in a prog band. otherwise, i just use a gritty overdrive and a really slow chorus. for thrash, i imagine one wouldnt need much modulation. maybe varying degrees of overdrive and a good EQ pedal to get the right growl AND low end without being muddy and separating yourself from the likely low heavy palm muted guitars.

[JimmyM]

I completely agree with your guitar player. And I'll tell you, getting rid of the Muff is a great start. There's just no need to use guitar pedals anymore. Pretty much every popular guitar OD/dist on the market has a bass clone with a clean blend built in. You need to be seeking those out instead of guitar pedals. It's OK to be distorted but you can't lose the heavy bottom end that you can only get from the clean end of things. With the Muff, it's gone. Bass distortions are built to keep the clean sound in there, so stick with them.

[GunslingingBird]

Originally Posted by sonic assassin

the fact that they called you cliff is quite a compliment.

I'm pretty sure is wasn't meant as a compliment. More like, "you aren't Cliff Burton, and therefore you don't need pedals".

To the OP: Sounds like your guitarists a bit jealous.
If you think your effects are important to the music and he can't see that, try explaining to him why you think they serve the music.

[sonic assassin]

Originally Posted by GunslingingBird

I'm pretty sure is wasn't meant as a compliment. More like, "you aren't Cliff Burton, and therefore you don't need pedals".

im aware.. but cliff IS thrash.. so thats a really sh*tty insult

[Deluge Of Sound]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

I completely agree with your guitar player. And I'll tell you, getting rid of the Muff is a great start. There's just no need to use guitar pedals anymore. Pretty much every popular guitar OD/dist on the market has a bass clone with a clean blend built in. You need to be seeking those out instead of guitar pedals. It's OK to be distorted but you can't lose the heavy bottom end that you can only get from the clean end of things. With the Muff, it's gone. Bass distortions are built to keep the clean sound in there, so stick with them.

Heresy, the BBM is too tame to be considered a viable alternative.

Also, in a thrash/power metal band, count your blessings if the rest of the guys are even willing to have you be heard in the mix, or playing anything other than straight eight notes.

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by Deluge Of Sound

Heresy, the BBM is too tame to be considered a viable alternative.

Yeah but who wants to go through the hassle of blending two signals if you don't have to?

[b4nny]

Disregard the "felt not heard" statement... That's total BS that non-bassists will always say. Especially since you're covering an Iron Maiden tune, the bass should definitely be HEARD in order to stay true to the original. Steve is taking a lead kind of role on Fear Of The Dark, he's louder than the guitar in some parts (and it sounds like he's using power chords left and right?).

I would agree with your guitarist in that effects are not always a good idea for bass. You will cut through much better clean, because with distortion, all of the fuzz pretty much gets swallowed by the guitars, and the only thing left is the fundamental note. That'll leave your bass sounding muddy and more like the guitars are bassy instead of there being a bassist in the band. With a clean tone, you'll keep your bass separate from the guitars and help you be heard.

[Deluge Of Sound]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

Yeah but who wants to go through the hassle of blending two signals if you don't have to?

I don't-- I run the Muff into a Blue Box.
Low End in spades.

[René_Julien]

My first band was a trashmetalband with only one guitarist.
He wanted me to play like Cliff. Also because he didn't wanted to play lead much, he was a good rhythm powerchords wall of distortion guitarist.
I was blessed that I can go as wild as I wanted. (Although sometimes good solid basslines were missed from the mix.)
Back then I only used a BOSS MetalZone.

You can look at effects use two ways:
1) Make categories about what effects can be used in a certain genre (subgenre). (Like what you ask.)
2) It's just a personal taste of a bassist, no matter what music style he/she plays.


First, you need to nail your tone perfect.
A tone for metal, then afterwards perhaps effects for metal.
If you are serious about a good metal tone first aquire some toneshapers like compression, equalizer,... even perhaps the SansAmp Bass Driver for just a little grit or other overdrive pedal.

A few weeks ago I started a thread with the question of using distortion in metal.
I was dropping distortion and overdrive pedals, I am happy with letting the guitars handle distortion. (Look at it this way: that's the only reason we keep guitars around in metal music, for distortion. )

But now I am back to using a little grit.
I have the Phad Hed, I used it for hard overdrive and I liked it because it sounded so artificial and less warm.
For mild overdrive or grit (grind,...) I don't like it... because it is so artificial.
Drive effects are all about taste, and depend on the rest of your setup. What works for me may not work for you and vice versa.

Oh, and if all else fails: EHX Steel Leather, that one will get you heard. Do a search on the Steel Leather in the effects forum.

I myself like having a sharp ballsy clean tone. Plus something else from time to time:

- I hear a lot of yays for chorus. I don't like chorus on bass. Instead I found an alternative: Rotary Speaker effect.
Not as shimmery as chorus, but ideal for mellower passages.

- Delay.... I am an avid delay user. Nice for adding dimension to your sound. From subtle to wild effects. Delay and echo.
I must admit: mostly for solo work. In a band situation delay doesn't get much use.

My use of Rotary Speaker and delay is just from personal experience and taste.
Noone suggested them to me. In my 9 years of being a bassist I stumbled across a lot of effects, some I kept, the ones I am comfortable with.

Again: your experience might differ.

[TimmyDX]

to answer the question you've got at the end of the post the three effects you've got shouldn't have offended them at all. For the music your doing chorus and overdrive technically follow there "Bass should only be felt" theory. The chorus will provide an atmospheric feel for more melodic bits and the overdrive will fatten and grit up any breaks you'll get to do.

Although they really overreacted to you using a distortion for the music it sound like your doing you wont really need it, as you would be using it on your low strings to provide an heavy distorted backup for the guitars but you've already got a rhythm guitarist so you'd just get lost so as its been said a clean tone would work better. But if you ever wanted to do a melodic break that would really cut through and be....felt.... a distortion would be best

but these guys sound really overbearing to me, like they seem to regard you as somewhat subordinate saying "you dont need this to do what we want you to do" its probably not like that, i wouldn't know im not in the band, but they seem a bit that way.