effects for trio (to not sound thin when guitarist plays lead)

[kokoshmusun]

We are a trio. We should've been a quartet but I switched to bass because we wanted to keep things simpler. Now of course, our guitarist can only play either rhythm or lead, but not both at the same time. This hasn't felt like a problem so far, but I I thought of asking here whether you TBers with so much more knowledge/experience of pedals than me could recommend some pedals that would make our sound not feel so thin when the guitarist plays lead.

I found out the FEA Labs Growler, but couldn't really figure out how it expands the bass sound from the sound clips on their website.

Just FYI, I just bought an Epiphone EB-0 short scale bass (actually receiving it next week) and I was thinking MXR M80 for preamp/distortion and MXR M288 (bass octave deluxe) for some spice, and nothing else. We are a rock-ish band.

So do you think any other pedals would help our sound? Thanks!

[My name is Mudd]

Chorus.

[MNAirHead]

MXR M80 is one of my favorite DIs.. as long as distortion isn't used.

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Without knowing more about your band, the bassic are to provide a fatter footprint (not more activity)

I have a trio.. I only use one setting on my multi effects unit..

Settings are as follows

SLOW chorus
Compressor
SLOW delay
Reverb
slight octaver

Basically they're steel guitar settings. when heard in spectrum you can't hear the difference.. stand alone you can tell.

[PimasterPearson]

How would you describe the music your band plays? And what is your individual playing style like?

[kokoshmusun]

I'm really bad at labeling things. I don't really have much of a style, I'm not really a bass player and don't know much about bass (techniques, gear, etc.). I use a pick and just play, I really don't know any special techniques. I just keep the bass line going.

I played a Fender P-bass in a pop/rock band before, this band is a bit more fast. We are not metal or punk. We are closer to what people call indie I guess. This random video by Sonic Youth isn't that far away from our goal (except not so many layers of guitars and I like to play the bass more treble-y): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rP3ovD8ZSS4

We come from rock roots (the guitarist has grown up listening to Queensryche and bunch of metal/rock bands) but we want to go more toward fast songs people can dance to. Sorry I suck at this and thanks for the replies.

[BullHorn]

A cheap Ibanez PHAT HED overdrive/distortion does the trick for me. Sounds surprisingly good for it's price.

[warwick.hoy]

I play in a trio (see signature) and the Juxtaposition is; I play a mojority of the time really dirty to wall of fuzz while my guitarist plays clean surf sounding guitars with occasional forays into OD/Disto (I'm trying to get him into a nice creamy sounding Fuzz Face tone. He had an Electro-Harmonix NYC Muff but it suffered from some volume suck for some reason. I jammed with another guitarist that had the same issue with an NYC Muff). While it's not a normal juxtaposition it works for us.

I think the best thing any bassist in a trio can do is use a substantial enough rig that has a deep enough tone to fill the lowend without getting muddy. Too often I play gigs (without FOH support) with bands; most of whom are trios or quartets with just a dedicated vocalist and the bassist is trying to get by with underpowered combo amps. To compensate they reduce the bass and pump the mids. While this get's heard in the mix it really does tend to rape the chest thump beef that I like to hear in a bass rig.

Of course there are those that will tell you that you don't need 1000 watts and 2 810's on stage,...phooey,...it's not a matter of pushing volume it's a matter of clarity of tone and not getting to muddy when you pump the lows. IMO YMMV Yadda Yadda (FWIW I don't use 2 810's on stage but I want to [I'd settle for 2x410s and 2x212s])

I think an octave can help but you have to get the right one. For me an octaver is to get a synthy sound,...not to fill in lowend. Meaning that I'm in the bass voice on the grand staff even though I'm playing an octave higher on the fingerboard.

If you want to play low on the fingerboard with an octaver and are trying to fill in the gaps with sub freq fundamentals then most analog octavers are out. You'll want a digital octaver and even then I recommend blending a dry signal over top.

I might also consider a good lowend retaining Fuzz to occupy some of the distortion space that a 2nd/rhythm guitarist would normally be providing.

I'd +1 chorus but I'm into chorus that much.

[DeathFromBelow]

Overdrive/distortion and DIG IN!

[jefkritz]

octave pedal, with dry signal + octave down.

i quite like my POG - it tracks perfectly (it can octave your ipod if you want) and has a bunch more options to boot. a microPOG could be more what you're looking for. these have a unique sound, so try one first if possible.

other people seem to love the boss oc-2 (or oc-3, i forget which is supposed to be better. boss gurus?). this will be more analog, with more of a 'standard" octaver sound. doesn't track quite as well as the POG, but works great if you have decent technique. or so i hear...

[kokoshmusun]

I'm a little confused about the MXR M80. I thought it would be enough for distortion but maybe not? Can I use it together with a dedicated distortion like Big Muff?

[Eric Scholz]

I had the M-80 and hated it. The clean side always made my bass sound like a toy, and the distortion was just unusable.

I'd recommend getting a Fulltone OCD

This is of course only my opinion, and I'm sure other people have had great results with the M-80

[RNV]

A chorus will help tremendously. I would also get a fuzz/OD that has a clean blend. Oh Yeah, DON'T SCOOP YOUR EQ!!! The mids are your best friend, especially in this application.

[warwick.hoy]

Don't get me wrong,...mids are good,...but not at the expense of lowend. I try to keep the high mids up dip the low mids a bit and pump a good amount of bass. The issue is low bass freqs eat up power so if you are on stage with a 100watt Fender BXR (solid state) Combo Amp without FOH support,...good luck with that.

[My name is Mudd]

Originally Posted by RNV

DON'T SCOOP YOUR EQ!!!

+1!

[Cirk]

Try a TC electronics stereo chorus/modulator/flanger. It's all analog, and sounds great with a 12 string Waterstone. How's that combo for a big tone? Also, with a 12, there won't be a big hole in the mix when the guitarist goes into a lead. No, they're not hard to play.

[M0ses]

I play in a trio and I don't use any effects and we've never sounded thin.

Just sayin'. Don't mean to sound like one of those dousches who goes into the effects forum and bashes them for no reason, but I don't think playing in a trio means you **need** effects any more than in any other situation. Sure, maybe they're cool, but if you can't fill out the sound without them, it's still not gonna sound right with them.

[warwick.hoy]

Originally Posted by M0ses

I play in a trio and I don't use any effects and we've never sounded thin.

Just sayin'. Don't mean to sound like one of those dousches who goes into the effects forum and bashes them for no reason, but I don't think playing in a trio means you **need** effects any more than in any other situation. Sure, maybe they're cool, but if you can't fill out the sound without them, it's still not gonna sound right with them.

This is why I'm advocating a solid rig and sensible EQing and I'm an effectsjunkie.

I like the 12 string bass idea too,...even and 8 string would be tits.

[P-oddz]

Originally Posted by M0ses

I play in a trio and I don't use any effects and we've never sounded thin.

Just sayin'. Don't mean to sound like one of those dousches who goes into the effects forum and bashes them for no reason, but I don't think playing in a trio means you **need** effects any more than in any other situation. Sure, maybe they're cool, but if you can't fill out the sound without them, it's still not gonna sound right with them.

^ This.

Effects pedals don't equal instant greatness. Learn what you are trying to achieve with the sound of your band before you try and figure out what pedal will make you instantly good. I would recommend first and foremost studying other bass players in trios. You said you don't really play bass, so I think you should start there. Learn what it means to hold down the low end, and what you like about certain bands. From that you can later decide tones you would like to achieve, and then you can figure out which pedals do that best for you.

Until then, people will keep throwing out their version of whatever is cool, and that doesn't instantly translate into what works for you or your sound.

[RNV]

Originally Posted by warwick.hoy

Don't get me wrong,...mids are good,...but not at the expense of lowend. I try to keep the high mids up dip the low mids a bit and pump a good amount of bass. The issue is low bass freqs eat up power so if you are on stage with a 100watt Fender BXR (solid state) Combo Amp without FOH support,...good luck with that.

Don't get me wrong either. I have my lows cranked, but I also have my low mids and high mid a touch higher than my mid mids(?) Now that I think about it, I guess I am scooped slightly but ever so slightly. My EQ isn't a smiley by any means.

[kokoshmusun]

Thanks for all the answers. I will look into all these suggestions.

If anybody has any patience, what does "DON'T SCOOP YOUR EQ" mean? Sorry, perhaps it's a matter of not being a native English speaker. I wasn't planning on having an EQ pedal (but I think the M80 has a 3-band EQ on it).

I can't play anything other than a 4-string. And I really don't play so fast and travel that much across the strings or on the fretboard. But it was a good suggestion. I can see how that would be a lot of fun.

@Eric Sholz: Too bad to hear that about the MXR M80, I was impressed by the reviews and was bent on getting one. I think I'll still try it.

@P-Oddz and M0ses: I agree with you guys. I don't expect instant greatness from pedals, but I just wanted some suggestions for experimenting with some pedals that might help me fill in some of the emptiness created by lack of rhythm guitars during lead parts. I'm actually for simplicity and I'm totally fine going directly into the amp (but previously, I have noticed that it made a huge difference to have the Sansamp in my rig, I moved overseas so had to sell it and to try something new, I want the M80 in its place). I'm also not at all obsessed about my tone, I just try to live with what I can get.