EHX HOG/POG for simulating a rhythm guitar?

DeeCup · #1 03-05-2010, 04:44 PM

I'm a bassist in a one-guitar band that plays out most of the week. We need the thickness of a rhythm guitar on solos, and only have one guitarist.

The idea has come up for me to use a HOG (or a cheaper POG) To deliver a higher octave and maybe a 5th, and then add distortion to the HOG'd signal. In theory, this would create a distorted rhythm guitar doing exactly what I am doing, only an octave higher and maybe as a power chord (if the 5th is added).

Will this work? Will it sound much like a guitar at club volume? I don't have access to play with one, and I don't want to spend $400 on one, if it's gonna sound like a cheesy octave pedal. Thanks for any optionins and experience!

Ian Perge · #2 03-05-2010, 05:24 PM

It won't sound "like a guitar", but it certainly will *fill out* the sound in a 3-piece. Throughout my playing history I've used some sort of effect to generate Octaves and/or 5ths for just that reason, as well as to create an "Electronic 10-string" as I always loved the sound of dual course basses but there was never a production-level bass for many years. I used an original Bass Whammy, Yamaha Magicstomp EB (a killer multi-effect if you're into home demoing/recording) and actually owned a Dean Edge Hammer 10-string for a year before realizing that the neck was a bit too wide & thick and that my pickstyle skills weren't up to par before settling on an Electro-Harmonix MicroPOG - its tracking is dead-on, there's very little upper-octave "digitalness" to the tone, and with a bit of Overdrive and Chorus you'll be able to fill up the sonic space that's open "Jeremy"-style!

lowfreq33 · #3 03-05-2010, 05:27 PM

I do this with an Akai Unibass. It wouldn't fool anyone on it's own, but in the mix it works great.

not_jason · #4 03-05-2010, 05:29 PM

In my band, whenever I need to fill the space of a rhythm guitar, I usually just play the chords (or some equivalent of them) on the D and G strings. I haven't tried it in a full band context, but I'm tempted to suggest that you try moving your actual playing an octave up, and then use an octave DOWN effect to fill the space where your bass would normally be. I've never been happy with the way a bass sounded shifted up.

crapusername · #5 03-05-2010, 05:39 PM

+1 on Akai Unibass.
designed for this very purpose

lowfreq33 · #6 03-05-2010, 05:46 PM

Unfortunately the Unibass is a little hard to find, people don't part with them very often. I had someone offer me $600 once and I turned it down.

ryansalmond · #7 03-05-2010, 05:49 PM

I do this with a HOG. It can work well for this.
The main important thing is what distortion you use. I went through several before I found one that made the HOG'd signal sound like a guitar rather than a glitchy synth sound.

Ones I found that worked for this purpose:
Line6 M9's "Tube Drive" distortion sound
Sansamp California
Sansamp ParaDriver

Ones I found that didn't work:
Mesa Bottle Rocket
EHX Double Muff
some others I forget

Basically, you want to use a distortion that is NOT very transparent or subtle.

Once you've got one that works to your tastes you're golden.

cheapbasslovin · #8 03-05-2010, 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryansalmond

I do this with a HOG. It can work well for this.
The main important thing is what distortion you use. I went through several before I found one that made the HOG'd signal sound like a guitar rather than a glitchy synth sound.

Ones I found that worked for this purpose:
Line6 M9's "Tube Drive" distortion sound
Sansamp California
Sansamp ParaDriver

Ones I found that didn't work:
Mesa Bottle Rocket
EHX Double Muff
some others I forget

Basically, you want to use a distortion that is NOT very transparent or subtle.

Once you've got one that works to your tastes you're golden.

+1
I used an EHX English Muff'n to flavor my HOG with excellent result. Recorded with it (to achieve a live sound) and it passed pretty well. The unknowing wouldn't give it a second thought.

pjmuck · #9 03-06-2010, 12:24 AM

The HOG has two outs, I believe - 1/4" processed and 1/4" direct out, though I'm not sure if you can run both cables out simultaneously. (I assume you can, in which case you should be fine). Run the DI signal to your bass amp and the second 1/4" processed HOG sounds to a guitar amp/PA, etc., that way you're keeping your bass out of the mix for it's own processing/amplification and it will sound more like two instruments. The POG only has one 1/4" out, so you can't split the signal unless you have stereo outs on your bass or you use some other line splitter before the POG (i.e. Boss L2, for example).

cheapbasslovin · #10 03-06-2010, 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pjmuck

The HOG has two outs, I believe - 1/4" processed and 1/4" direct out, though I'm not sure if you can run both cables out simultaneously. (I assume you can, in which case you should be fine). Run the DI signal to your bass amp and the second 1/4" processed HOG sounds to a guitar amp/PA, etc., that way you're keeping your bass out of the mix for it's own processing/amplification and it will sound more like two instruments. The POG only has one 1/4" out, so you can't split the signal unless you have stereo outs on your bass or you use some other line splitter before the POG (i.e. Boss L2, for example).

I forgot about this little tidbit. Having a clean parallel signal is very helpful in creating this sound. I use a parallel looper and just kicked on the whole side as a loop while still retaining my bass signal.

Jared Lash · #11 03-06-2010, 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lowfreq33

Unfortunately the Unibass is a little hard to find, people don't part with them very often. I had someone offer me $600 once and I turned it down.

$600? Wow. I've watched auctions for the last few on eBay (I dig the effect but currently have no use for it so I don't bid) and none have gone for more than $300 with the last one I saw selling for $255. But you're right that they don't come up for sale all that often.

And I agree that the Unibass is the best way to accomplish what the OP is looking to do. Much easier than a POG/HOG AND a distortion and it sounds good in a mix.

Swimming Bird · #12 03-06-2010, 12:25 PM

I agree that it won't sound like a rhythm guitar unless you strum chords like a rhythm guitarist. I had the same issue a couple years ago and it lead me to go after Claypool's slap 'n' strum techniques.

I think you're on the right track with the EHX Micro POG and a distortion, especially if you're just trying to take up a rhythm guitar's frequency range. I might suggest also getting a blended loop pedal (maybe a Boss LS-2) so you can hit both at the same time and not tap dance.

bigchiefbc · #13 03-06-2010, 12:32 PM

This is a clip from the fx wiki here. I did it a couple years ago with a POG and a Turbo Rat for the distortion:

http://bassfxpedals.com/clips/pog-rhythm-guitar.mp3

walker rosewood · #14 03-06-2010, 01:58 PM

I tried the HOG for this. It worked ok, but it was too much pedal for the job. add expression pedal, volume pedal, lugging my marshall half stack around, set up time, the footprint of pedal, and the cost... I sold it after two weeks. Now I just use the aforementioned playing up an octave, and an OC-3 to get the down. Manually adding the 5th works for me. The OC-3 will track both notes, and has wet/dry outs so if you wanted to run the upper octave to a dist. and keep the lower octave clean you could.

Try the HOG at a store if you can. Or at least buy used, then if you don't like it, you can sell it for what you payed for it. (or make a profit!) Or just find that unibass, which even has a built in distortion.

Kromwarp · #15 03-06-2010, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lowfreq33

I do this with an Akai Unibass. It wouldn't fool anyone on it's own, but in the mix it works great.

Thats currently what Billy Cox uses for Hendrix material for replicating guitar/bass unison lines

coreyfyfe · #16 03-06-2010, 02:12 PM

The HOG can be a lot of pedal, but it also has a lot of other uses. I started using it as a replacement for my whammy IV/POG which were stolen, and ended up getting some pretty cool tones out of it, outside of the octaves. I'm no longer playing in the band where I used all the effects so I've been thinking about selling it and going down to a POG2 or something, but there really is a lot that you can do with it, so I've been leaning more towards keeping the darn thing.

The issue with playing chords/playing up and octave for me was that I found using the pedal to be more conducive to easier playing and faster moving lines when I wanted that sound. Plus I keep the octave sound lower than the dry sound so the bass still sits on top of the rhythm sound below.

troubleboy · #17 03-09-2010, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pjmuck

The HOG has two outs, I believe - 1/4" processed and 1/4" direct out, though I'm not sure if you can run both cables out simultaneously. (I assume you can, in which case you should be fine). Run the DI signal to your bass amp and the second 1/4" processed HOG sounds to a guitar amp/PA, etc., that way you're keeping your bass out of the mix for it's own processing/amplification and it will sound more like two instruments. The POG only has one 1/4" out, so you can't split the signal unless you have stereo outs on your bass or you use some other line splitter before the POG (i.e. Boss L2, for example).

I'm doing this with a Micro POG, which has 1/4" processed and dry outs I'm using simultaneously. I send an octave up through a Line 6 XT Live guitar processor (Bogner amp model sounds best) then DI to the sound man, who rolls off some highs. I use the volume pedal on the Line 6 to add or subtract as needed. Sounds great. I plan on replacing the micro POG with the HOG for adding the 5th. Should sound very convincing.

chuck3 · #18 03-09-2010, 03:36 PM

I use a POG2 to fill out the sound per the original poster's point, only I'd say it sounds more like an organ than a rhythm guitar. Which is fine, the band likes it. I use the Xotic wet/dry blender so that I always have clean sound too. I double on harmonica (in a holder) so when the guitarist solos I can actually get a pretty full keyboard sound going along with clean bass. It's not for every song, but for certain songs it works very well.

I don't have any great ideas for getting it to sound like rhythm guitar, though - mine doesn't.

wrathofgod · #19 03-09-2010, 03:41 PM

this is just the post i have been looking for. i was about to post a new on, until i found this one

ok, so this is the deal:
i play in a stoner band, we play a lot of riffs, and the one guitar an myself do play the same thing most of the time.
but sometimes, the guitar has to play a solo or some different riffage, but we want to keep the ground tone. so here my question:
i play a big bass muff, and i´m thinking about playing a micro pog.
now, if my guitar player plays his solo, can i get my pog+muff going, and fill up the missing guitar, hence keeping that gorund tone?
i wouldnt mind if i have to play an octave higher. but, like i said, i dont know if its the right thing to get.

any expreiences?
thx, wrath.

excuse my english, i´m not a native speaker.

rhombass · #20 03-10-2010, 11:22 AM

although it won't sound like a rhythm guitar, the micro POG and distortion will fill in the sound much more than a straight bass signal. i've never played with a HOG before, but i can only imagine that it would achieve the same kind of effect, but even fuller. i say go for it and see how it sounds. it won't be spot-on rhythm guitar, but it should sound full of awesome.