Electronica Tone

[Gashaponcito]

So... I got a new proyect and I would like to give a twist to my sound so I'm looking for some kind of synthy without sweep sound I got a few examples:
Tulips (Minotaur Shock Remix) - Bloc Party
http://www.mediafire.com/?dyjmrm2lzzl

Pogo - Digitalism
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uw4J0Go_4rg

Mer du Japon (Teenagers Remix)- Air
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4F9MPUMdrxg

I think a Moog Low Pass Filter will take me there but I'm not sure also if there's a cheaper way it would be great

[jufros]

The standard combo is octave + fuzz + filter. You're probably going to want a gated fuzz so look at the Wooly Mammoth, Chunk Systems Brown Dog, and MXR BlowTorch. I think those are the best options for that sound. For octave, I'd recommend the Boss OC-2 or the MXR Bass Octave Deluxe. For filters, it really is Moog or bust if you want to nail that style. I'm having some luck with my EHX Enigma as well though.

[TheMutt]

Analog octaver (OC-2, MXR BOD, Octron, etc) -> Groove Regulator w/ Brown Dog or other gated fuzz in the loop. Done.

[JMDT]

Originally Posted by TheMutt

Analog octaver (OC-2, MXR BOD, Octron, etc) -> Groove Regulator w/ Brown Dog or other gated fuzz in the loop. Done.

How do yo set your groove regulator for this sound? I have been struggling to find the right knob configuration on the Groove Regulator with my OC-2 and Messdrive.

[jufros]

I don't think the Groove Regulator would my choice for an electronica filter. The EBS, WMD, EHX Enigma, and Moog can get much synthier. The Maxon is not bad but it's very limited in scope for that application. If you have the Enigma and the Moog though, you're pretty much set for almost everything.

If you need no sweep, you're pretty much stuck with the Moog MF-101, EHX Enigma, or EHX Bass MicroSynth. I have all three and they are each fantastic versatile units with a lot of character. For electronica sounds, they make up the bread and butter of my pedal board.

[Gashaponcito]

Originally Posted by jufros

I don't think the Groove Regulator would my choice for an electronica filter. The EBS, WMD, EHX Enigma, and Moog can get much synthier. The Maxon is not bad but it's very limited in scope for that application. If you have the Enigma and the Moog though, you're pretty much set for almost everything.

If you need no sweep, you're pretty much stuck with the Moog MF-101, EHX Enigma, or EHX Bass MicroSynth. I have all three and they are each fantastic versatile units with a lot of character. For electronica sounds, they make up the bread and butter of my pedal board.

nice, I think I'll get the MF-101 then... could you make a little comparison between the MF-101 and the Enigma? thanks!

[Gashaponcito]

anymore opinions?

[rottenramone]

definitely the mf101. its the original filter for giorgio moroder type songs!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Akyx5iu_z8Y

[fightthepower]

You want the Moog for sure. The comby filtering is where it's at, most funky envelope filters are too clean in my experience.

[jufros]

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page...songID=7978349

I did this really quickly but I think it helps show how much the Moog can do. I haven't had it for very long and I'm still learning a lot about it but it's easily the most useful pedal for electronica that I've ever played.

[SnakeAnthony]

Decisions decisions...

That was 11 threads down from this one when I saw it. You even link to the same video as the OP in that thread.

[SnakeAnthony]

Originally Posted by Gashaponcito

Mer du Japon (Teenagers Remix)- Air
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4F9MPUMdrxg

I think a Moog Low Pass Filter will take me there but I'm not sure also if there's a cheaper way it would be great

This sounds like a bass stung with bright flats. The only effect I hear is a Ring Mod being turned on and off again for the accented notes. Not sure where the Moog would help there.

Originally Posted by Gashaponcito

Pogo - Digitalism
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uw4J0Go_4rg

I think a Moog Low Pass Filter will take me there but I'm not sure also if there's a cheaper way it would be great

I'm going to echo bigchiefbc from the other thread that discusses this exact thing: The Moog isn't what you're looking for with that tone. The Moog is great for the funky sweeped synth of 70's funk music, but for this brand of electronica, you will likely be much happier with a digital model like a Boss SYB or Digitech BSW. It will also cost you a lot less cash.

But if you insist on purchasing expensive pedals to do this, I think the Moog Freqbox with a fuzz gets a lot closer than with the lowpass filter.

What I don't understand is why people are trying to do this with basses in the first place. There's no shame in just getting a MicroKORG and plugging it into your rig. First and foremost, it's probably what a lot of these electronica guys actually use to get the tones you want. And secondly, it's probably a cheaper option than dishing out the cash for a filter, an octave, and a fuzz.

[fightthepower]

Originally Posted by SnakeAnthony

This sounds like a bass stung with bright flats. The only effect I hear is a Ring Mod being turned on and off again for the accented notes. Not sure where the Moog would help there.



I'm going to echo bigchiefbc from the other thread that discusses this exact thing: The Moog isn't what you're looking for with that tone. The Moog is great for the funky sweeped synth of 70's funk music, but for this brand of electronica, you will likely be much happier with a digital model like a Boss SYB or Digitech BSW. It will also cost you a lot less cash.

But if you insist on purchasing expensive pedals to do this, I think the Moog Freqbox with a fuzz gets a lot closer than with the lowpass filter.

What I don't understand is why people are trying to do this with basses in the first place. There's no shame in just getting a MicroKORG and plugging it into your rig. First and foremost, it's probably what a lot of these electronica guys actually use to get the tones you want. And secondly, it's probably a cheaper option than dishing out the cash for a filter, an octave, and a fuzz.

He would be pretty bummed when he got the BSW and found out that it does not produce any waveforms.

The Moog sounds great being swept, this is true, but it is also great when its not being swept and adds a huge lowend while combing out the high freq's in a sonically desirable manner. I agree that the Freqbox or other wavegenerator is preferable to a fuzz in this application, but you still need to stick the Moog LPF at the end of the chain to filter out the harsh high freq's- you will not get the same effect from most other filters or an eq.

My microkorg is gutless compared to the tones coming out of my pedalborad/moog pedals.

[SnakeAnthony]

Originally Posted by fightthepower

He would be pretty bummed when he got the BSW and found out that it does not produce any waveforms.

The Moog sounds great being swept, this is true, but it is also great when its not being swept and adds a huge lowend while combing out the high freq's in a sonically desirable manner. I agree that the Freqbox or other wavegenerator is preferable to a fuzz in this application, but you still need to stick the Moog LPF at the end of the chain to filter out the harsh high freq's- you will not get the same effect from most other filters or an eq.

My microkorg is gutless compared to the tones coming out of my pedalborad/moog pedals.

At one point I was running a White Russian, a Moog Lowpass, and an OC-2 to get synth tones (before that I had a Q-Tron that was actually pretty good for the application), so I know what this combo sounds like. It sounds like Muse in some places, and Stevie Wonder in others. But these bands like Pogo, the Postal Service, and Daft Punk aren't using those tones. I'm willing to bet they are using digital models (probably computer based) to get their tone, which is a digital tone. So yes, the digital models wont do real waveforms, but they will probably get him closer to the tone than a basic (read as non-Moog) Filter+Octave+Fuzz setup.

I liked the FreqBox + Filter + Fuzz, but actually preferred the setup without the peaking of any filter involved. Harsh? Yeah. Cool? Hell yes. However, I never owned specifically the Moog Lowpass and the Freqbox at the same time (had the Q-Tron then), so I never got to try that exact setup. Still, remember that a new LP goes for $290, and a new FreqBox goes for $370 usd, not to mention the potential cost of an additional harsh fuzz (which I found really helps the tone, just me though).

I stand by my suggestion that he purchase, or if not at least try one of the digital pedals before shelling out all of this cash.

And lastly, I love my MicroKORG, and it's the reason I sold off the Moogs and other filters. It did the synth tone I wanted better to my ears. Running through a tube head and an 8x10, there's nothing puny about it (IMO/IME).

[fightthepower]

Originally Posted by SnakeAnthony

At one point I was running a White Russian, a Moog Lowpass, and an OC-2 to get synth tones (before that I had a Q-Tron that was actually pretty good for the application), so I know what this combo sounds like. It sounds like Muse in some places, and Stevie Wonder in others. But these bands like Pogo, the Postal Service, and Daft Punk aren't using those tones. I'm willing to bet they are using digital models (probably computer based) to get their tone, which is a digital tone. So yes, the digital models wont do real waveforms, but they will probably get him closer to the tone than a basic (read as non-Moog) Filter+Octave+Fuzz setup.

I liked the FreqBox + Filter + Fuzz, but actually preferred the setup without the peaking of any filter involved. Harsh? Yeah. Cool? Hell yes. However, I never owned specifically the Moog Lowpass and the Freqbox at the same time (had the Q-Tron then), so I never got to try that exact setup. Still, remember that a new LP goes for $290, and a new FreqBox goes for $370 usd, not to mention the potential cost of an additional harsh fuzz (which I found really helps the tone, just me though).

I stand by my suggestion that he purchase, or if not at least try one of the digital pedals before shelling out all of this cash.

And lastly, I love my MicroKORG, and it's the reason I sold off the Moogs and other filters. It did the synth tone I wanted better to my ears. Running through a tube head and an 8x10, there's nothing puny about it (IMO/IME).

A white russian is a muff clone, and not too well suited for the 'synthy' stuff posted above, and the Qtron is much too resonant for any use like the these video's posted, and is very limited for use as a static filter/stuckwah. With a filter at the end there should be no envelope, and therefor no 'peaking' of the filter- just a static filter.

Digital oscillators actually will do real waveforms, the BSW won't. The SYB and its clone will and should be the only one he tries (under the $200 mark anyway). Sure many of these are digital tones, but they basically emulating analog stuff and being used simply because its what they had, not because it does it better than analog -we're talking about simple stuff here that can be done on their analog counterparts and do not require digital to create complex tones.

The Freqbox can be had for well under $300 and the LPF for $200, so they don't sound too bad when compared to a new Markbass synth that appears to be $300+.

[SnakeAnthony]

Originally Posted by fightthepower

A white russian is a muff clone, and not too well suited for the 'synthy' stuff posted above, and the Qtron is much too resonant for any use like the these video's posted, and is very limited for use as a static filter/stuckwah. With a filter at the end there should be no envelope, and therefor no 'peaking' of the filter- just a static filter.

Digital oscillators actually will do real waveforms, the BSW won't. The SYB and its clone will and should be the only one he tries (under the $200 mark anyway). Sure many of these are digital tones, but they basically emulating analog stuff and being used simply because its what they had, not because it does it better than analog -we're talking about simple stuff here that can be done on their analog counterparts and do not require digital to create complex tones.

The Freqbox can be had for well under $300 and the LPF for $200, so they don't sound too bad when compared to a new Markbass synth that appears to be $300+.

Play a White Russian and you'll understand. I kept the Russian because it did the synth stuff so well while being able to cop a basic Muff tone. It has pre and post gain controls, a mid switch, blend control, et al. It's got a lot of variety in it, and did the super fuzzy synth sound well. Note that I tried the setup with a Fuzz Saw, a Blowtorch, a Brassmaster close, and a Mammoth. I just kept the White Russian.

I do know everything you're telling me, you know. I did own the Q-Tron, I did play with it, I know it's a resonant envelope filter. It's good (not great, but better than I expected) for the funky synth stuff (did the Muse tone well, anyway). I wasn't suggesting he try those things; in fact I was discouraging him from doing so. But more than anything I was qualifying the fact that I do understand what I'm talking about when I give advice. Then again, I should hope that the qualifier "In my opinion" shouldn't be necessary, but perhaps it is.

I will also say that it doesn't matter that they are emulating analog, they still aren't analog. They are digital. It's become it's own sound, and is being used differently. Margarine was trying to be butter, but it wasn't, and eventually found its own place as its own ingredient. Get what I'm saying?

Lastly, addressing price again, I will quote the OP:

Originally Posted by Gashaponcito

I think a Moog Low Pass Filter will take me there but I'm not sure also if there's a cheaper way it would be great

The BSW and the SYB are cheap pedals, and will get something that is at least close to this tone. If this 'project' turns into something that needs the OP to be picky, then by all means, spend a lot of money. But when synth was my thing I ended up spending a lot of money looking for something that I found (opinion here) couldn't be done perfectly by any pedal. I spend what was probably a comparable amount of money to what a real synth module would have cost me, and got something that wasn't that much better than the SYB or BSW option.

[fightthepower]

Well Im not sure you do know what Im saying and If you're 'echoing bigchief' from the other thread, I don't know why you keep recommending the BSW because it does not have any waveforms-- Bigchief is recommending the SYB specifically because of the sawtooth, not because it is a digital octave/filter/fuzz pedal. He was also recommending the LPF to go with the SYB because it would be needed for those tones- specifically the Daft Punk link which was not posted in this thread. If you know what Im saying about the filter having no envelope, I don't know why you brought it up in the first place in response to my mention of the LPF for filtering out harsh high freq's-- those harsh frequencies may sound cool to you, but it is more necessary to filter them out to get the tones in the posted links than it is to use a digital pedal.

The 'digital being its own thing' argument is pretty weak in this case- we're talking about simple bass lines.. The 'Air' link is surely a digital bass line as well so Im not sure how a "bass strung with flats" would fit, ring modulator or not. Go read the dubstep wobble thread and listen to some of the clips towards the end-- those dubstep basslines are being produced and applied in a way that can only be done digitally; this is a case where that argument would be relevant.

[SnakeAnthony]

Originally Posted by fightthepower

Well Im not sure you do know what Im saying and If you're 'echoing bigchief' from the other thread, I don't know why you keep recommending the BSW because it does not have any waveforms-- Bigchief is recommending the SYB specifically because of the sawtooth, not because it is a digital octave/filter/fuzz pedal. He was also recommending the LPF to go with the SYB because it would be needed for those tones- specifically the Daft Punk link which was not posted in this thread. If you know what Im saying about the filter having no envelope, I don't know why you brought it up in the first place in response to my mention of the LPF for filtering out harsh high freq's-- those harsh frequencies may sound cool to you, but it is more necessary to filter them out to get the tones in the posted links than it is to use a digital pedal.

The 'digital being its own thing' argument is pretty weak in this case- we're talking about simple bass lines.. The 'Air' link is surely a digital bass line as well so Im not sure how a "bass strung with flats" would fit, ring modulator or not. Go read the dubstep wobble thread and listen to some of the clips towards the end-- those dubstep basslines are being produced and applied in a way that can only be done digitally; this is a case where that argument would be relevant.

Again, the point of mentioning it: I've done my homework. I went through a lot of cash trying to recreate original synth modules, digital computer models, etc., with pedals, and never got any closer than I would have with the BSW or the SYB. I tried the LP, on top of a half a dozen other filters (and wahs, which I actually preferred as you had the option to leave it stationary, or move it for peaks), at times attempting to get Muse-ish funky tones (mostly using a Q-Tron, which can be set to sort of cop a static filter tone anyway) or the digital stuff (which I maintain I never did well with pedals, I would only do using a computer).

And in the end, it all got me some mildly different flavor of the same thing. A truth be told, the BSW (yes, I know, no real waveforms) and the SYB did a variation of everything I got for 1/10-1/20 the price. If I could do it again, I would probably just buy an SYB and wait until I dropped out of the project where I used the synth tones.

I know we are all tone freaks here, but I have come to the conclusion that we're mostly attempting to finish a painting with gold-infused paint. Are we proud of it? Yeah. Does it really matter to listeners in the long run? Not really.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not criticizing those of us that piss money away on this stuff. I just got a Bass Whammy on top of a new cab and three other new pedals, so clearly, I do it too. But I'm just reminding the OP that a lot of the things we recommend will cost a lot of money to get something that really only pleases us and the other musicians that listen to our music. He/she asked for something on the cheap, and the <$100 that he would spend on a digital synth pedal surely qualifies in comparison to the >$500 he would spend on the Moogs et al. situation. That's been the majority of what I'm saying for the beginning.

[gastric]

I think you two should fight with MUSIC. All of this musical discussion with just words isn't as useful as if you'd just post some clips.

Then we can all yell turn it into a clip fight. CLIP Fi-i-i-i-i-iGHT!!! and have some badass audio battles. Then the peanut gallery (the rest of us) can be the judges and egg you on. That sounds HAWT!

[gastric]

Hopefully I can start a new musical forum trend. C'mon this is soooo catchy!

CLIP Fi-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-iGHT!!!