Electronics Wizards, I need your advice...

[Proton Lenny]

So I have a strange problem. Bear with me:

If any of you are familiar with my setup, you know I have a long signal chain. About 15 pedals in all. However I use high quality Lava Cables (which I've checked, not the problem), Voodoolabs Pedal power for clean power, and proprietary adapters for everything else.

OK, onto the problem.

The last pedal in my chain was a Malekko Chicklet (except for my looper which sits after my board, Boss RC-50). I have to send it to Josh to have it fixed, something is weird with it. This is where the problem started.

For some reason when I took the Chicklet off the end of the chain, my Porkloin (overdrive) and my Musket (Muff lost a ton of output. They still make sound, just volume drop. Every other pedal in my chain is fine, including my 3 other dirt pedals. However, if I turn on any pedal in my chain after the PL or Musk, the level drop goes away.

So by themselves, those two have major drop in volume. With any other pedal after them in the chain turned on, volume comes back. Also, stacking the PL and Musk together solves the volume drop problem. Just those two by themselves have this issue.

Even weirder if I go straight from my board into my amp (instead of my normal board, then looper, then amp setup). The problem goes away. all pedals work flawlessly.

So with RC-50, and the Chicklet at the end of chain there is no problem. That is even with the Chicklet bypassed (buffered).

RC-50 and board without Chicklet, problem.

Only board, no RC-50, (and also no Chicklet) no problem.

Sorry for the crazy long post, but I had to put all the details to fully show how confused I am.

Any Ideas?

Proton

[bongomania]

Hmmm, tricky. Note that the RC50 and Chicklet are digital--are there any other digi pedals in the chain? I would also take notes about whether any of the pedals take reverse polarity power (even though you're using isolated supplies, polarity can still pose issues sometimes). Also I'd note down which pedals have high current draw, and which ones have "charge pump" technology to boost 9V up to a higher voltage internally. These are not "bad things", or even direct signs of problems, but they can be clues.

[Proton Lenny]

Well I'm not sure if this info will help, but to answer some of those things Bongo (thanks for the response by the way, I was hoping you'd chime in).

As far as digital goes:

Eventide Pitch and Modfactor
Empress Superdelay
And kind of the Geiger Counter CI

Don't think any pedals are using reverse polarity. However my filter (MS-20 clone) does run off its own AC power supply.

High Current Draw:

Eventide Factor Pedals - 1400ma (proprietary wall wart)
EHX Iron Lung - 125ma (isolated spot VD Labs PP2+)
Empress Superdelay - 250ma (proprietary wall wart)
MS-20 Clone - can't remember, but AC power and high draw

• Moog MP-201 Controller, not in my signal chain, but it does have high draw, uses own adapter

Don't know if any of my pedals have "charge pump" that you speak of. They might, I'm just not sure.

It is weird that would only affect those two pedals. Why not the other analogue dirts? And why does turning on pedals later in my chain "fix" the problem?

If only I didn't need my looper, wouldn't have a problem.

[bongomania]

The path to the mysterious spirit world is the ground plane AKA common. Even when using isolated power supplies, all of the pedals' commons are connected via the shield of the patch cords! The fact is that different pedals may be designed with different internal grounding schemes--and they may depend on the common as an arbitrary "zero reference" for components like transistors that need a very specific narrow range of voltage at one leg in order to function properly. Usually there is enough similarity between pedal designs that it's not a problem; but once in a while you'll discover that certain pedals just can't coexist on the same board! To further complicate matters, even if it's always X and Y pedal that show problematic symptoms, it could be innocent-seeming Z pedal causing it all--without showing any signs of having an issue itself.

[Proton Lenny]

Arg, your probably right. Hopefully when I get my fixed Chicklet back, that will "solve" the problem. If it doesn't, then I'll start looking at some different options (of pedals and power). It is weird, the PL and Musk have been on my board for a bit. Wonder what I've added since then that has caused the problem. Always had the Spring Chicken/Chicklet on there with them though, so maybe that is the secret ingredient to making those pedals be amiable with my setup. I really need to learn some basics of electronics so I can debunk some of this kind of stuff myself.

[Darkglass]

Hey, one question... Do you have any buffer bypass pedals in the beginning of the chain when the volume drop happens!?

[Schlatte]

Yeah.. it's either the buffered bypass that screws your signal up in such a chain or it could be an impedance problem... or you just have some kind of low impedance/resistance on either the input or the output of a pedal that sucks your signal to near ground level... maybe a volume pot is defective...

[smllsnd/bigsnd]

yep this is an impedance issue.

[bongomania]

are you guys suggesting impedance issues only as symptoms of a bad component, or are you saying impedance could be an issue even with no faulty components in his pedal chain?

[Proton Lenny]

Here's is a list of my full chain:

Buffer box > Boss OC2 (buffered) > Pitchfactor (relay) > Copilot Orbit (TB) > Zvex Masto (TB) > WMD GCCI (TB) > Porkloin (TB) > Musket (TB) > EHX Iron Lung (TB) > Modfactor (relay) > Express Superdelay (TB) > Custom LPF (TB) > Custom VCA for trems (TB)

Then the Chicklet would have come, but not currently, then looper. MP-201 is on there controlling the VCA and LPF via C.V. and the Pitchfactor via midi.

In terms of buffers at the beginning of the chain making a difference, the only buffered pedal I have that I can turn on and off is my OC-2. Doesn't make a difference either way if it is on or off. I suppose it could be a faulty pot or something, but why would it work fine without the looper? Seems to be more of a joint problem between multiple pedals, rather than a faulty single pedal.

[Proton Lenny]

So I switched my ModFactor's bypass from Relay to Buffered and that fixed the problem. I guess my Pork Loin and Musket couldn't push the signal through the looper without the help of the Modfactors buffer?

[Dick Tree]

I have a similar problem, so I hope you don't mind me hijacking your thread since it appears your problem has been solved.

I have a much smaller board than the OP, so this should be an easy solution...

My set-up is

Schecter Stiletto Custom 5 Bass --> Russian Big Muff --> OC-2 --> Dunlop Crybaby (guitar wah) --> EHX Memory Boy --> Digitech BP80 --> SWR LA15 combo amp

I use a 1Spot to power everything but the wah, then a separate power supply for the wah.

I want to swap the positioning of the Big Muff and OC-2. But when I do that, I completely lose my signal. The Big Muff LED comes on when I engage the pedal, but I get a loud popping noise along with it.

Any ideas? I can be more descriptive if necessary.

[Schlatte]

always a problem with the russian muffs... input and output jack swapped? just asking the obvious things first...
what version of the muff is it? black russian? civil war? tall font?
maybe it's just not able to handle the low frequencies of the oc-2?
greetings

[Dick Tree]

Originally Posted by Schlatte

always a problem with the russian muffs... input and output jack swapped? just asking the obvious things first...
what version of the muff is it? black russian? civil war? tall font?
maybe it's just not able to handle the low frequencies of the oc-2?
greetings

Everything is plugged in properly. It's a Black Russian... I don't think it's unable to handle the oc-2 because the oc-2 is not engaged and there is no signal at all.

[Schlatte]

Originally Posted by Dick Tree

Everything is plugged in properly. It's a Black Russian... I don't think it's unable to handle the oc-2 because the oc-2 is not engaged and there is no signal at all.

hmmm.... maybe some issues with the buffered bypass of the OC-2?
One of my guesses is that you could maybe have some DC on your signal chain.. that would cause the popping noise when you enable your muff... if you have a multimeter you could just set it to DC and touch the red probe to the tip of the patchcable thats coming out of the output of the OC-2 and the black one to the sleeve...
Idk if it's possible but I could imagine it (pls don't give me BS for that )

[Skrogh]

Try taking the wah-wah out. Some wah-wahs don't work well with transistor fuzzes. (Although I think the problem is when the fuzz is after the wah, but it's free to try.)

[Dick Tree]

Originally Posted by Skrogh

Try taking the wah-wah out. Some wah-wahs don't work well with transistor fuzzes. (Although I think the problem is when the fuzz is after the wah, but it's free to try.)

Tried this just now, didn't work.