Electronix Submarine

[jfenderp]

I have been very interested in this pedal for a while now but haven't been able to pull the trigger on it. I've listened to the soundclips and read almost every thread on TB that has the word "Submarine" in it. My delima is....I am probably going to have an empty spot on my live board due to the fact that my VT Bass doesn't seem to like my fuzz pedal and for now my VT covers my distortion needs. Also, I only have room for 3 pedals right now.....Tuner--> VT--> "Insert a nano sized pedal here"

Anyways, for people that have a submarine or have any experience with it....do you think that it would make much of a difference in tone even with my VT and is it worth filling up the only spot available? I usually keep my tone knob on about 30-50% on my jazz and I am really digging the full robust sound I can get from the VT which stays on all the time. Also, would it work well with my ABG? I don't play the ABG alot but I might be able to justify purchasing it if it would help tame down some of the zing.

Thanks-JDB

[rcubed]

Since the VT covers distortion, get the MESSdrive Hybird+ for some fuzz instead of the Submarine.

[stflbn]

I'm wondering if you keep the Messdrive+'s fuzz setting off, or very low if it's acceptably comparable to a Submarine.

Seem's possible. The pedal seems like a mutant cross between a Submarine and a Mess Drive.


.

[Joe Gress]

Originally Posted by stflbn

I'm wondering if you keep the Messdrive+'s fuzz setting off, or very low if it's acceptably comparable to a Submarine.

No. It's either fuzz or off.

The submarine (to the best of my pea brain) is an all around tonal enhancer that specializes in deep, smooth, yet full bass tone with the tone knob down. With the tone knob up, it does the same thing, just with added clear defined top end.

The Messdrive+ is a fuzz all the way. Even on the lowest settings, it is still fuzzy and rumbling. Let me see if I can record a clip.

[stflbn]

I'm talking about the 3 knob Messdrive Hybrid+ rather than the 2 knob Messdrive that only has Volume and Tone.




Volume, Mess, and Tone knobs. I was assuming with Mess all the way down or near all the way down you got little or no fuzz.

[Joe Gress]

Originally Posted by stflbn

I'm talking about the 3 knob Messdrive Hybrid+

Volume, Gain, and Tone knobs. I was assuming with Gain all the way down or near all the way down you got little or no fuzz.

Yep, that's the one I got. Ill be back with some clips.

[jfenderp]

I love the sound of the messdrive hybrid but I'm not really in the market for a fuzz. Even though I can't help keeping my eye on the one grygrx has for sale in the classifieds. I'm really looking for something to "improve" my sound and I think the Submarine could do that. But, I don't really know if it is going to be worth having it on my board or not since I only have room for one more pedal. Now if the Messdrive can do a good imitaion of the submarine and get messy then I'll head over to the classified and buy it right now because that would be idealy what I'm looking for.

[LuvMusic]

Originally Posted by jfenderp

My delima is....I am probably going to have an empty spot on my live board due to the fact that my VT Bass doesn't seem to like my fuzz pedal and for now my VT covers my distortion needs. Thanks-JDB

I was looking at your profile and it appears that you have/had an El Grande fuzz.

If you were using the El Grande, I'd be interested in what "issues" you are having. I just bought an El Grande of the TB Classified and will be placing it in a board with a VT.

Thanks for the insight!

[Joe Gress]

Ok. Here is the Messdrive Hybrid+ low gain clip:

http://media.putfile.com/Messdrive-H...-Gain-Settings

This was recorded Bass (Squier VMJ)>Messdrive>Boss BR-1.

The clip starts out with my clean tone, then I click the messdrive on. As I bring up the gain (it starts all the way at the bottom, hence no signal) I leave it where it is audible. Then I turn up the volume a bit to justify the signal loss. That is the sound on the lowest gain setting. I then move the vintage/modern over and start turning up the gain, but never more than 12, as the clip goes on.

BTW: My Messdrive Hybrid+

[jfenderp]

Originally Posted by LuvMusic

I was looking at your profile and it appears that you have/had an El Grande fuzz.

If you were using the El Grande, I'd be interested in what "issues" you are having. I just bought an El Grande of the TB Classified and will be placing it in a board with a VT.

Thanks for the insight!

I do have one and I dig the way that it sounds by itself. The problem issue seemed to be that I keep the drive on the VT on about 10 o'clock and when I click on the El Grande it gets a little too "hairy" to say the least, even when I have the fuzz dialed almost all the way off. Now, if I set the drive on the VT to 0-1 then it was ok but it doesn't seem practical to have to adjust it while playing.
That was with the El Grande in front of the VT, when I got home I put it behind the VT and it behaved alot better but I haven't gotten to try it at our normal playing level. It seemed like it cut alot of the bassy fuzz that the El Grande has. I hope that I can try it out in the next couple days to see how it works setup this way.

[stflbn]

Ok, so that pretty much shows me that you can't completely get rid of the 'mess' fuzz, but it is faint, and putting the Messdrive Hybrid in a blend state would help mix the faint fuzz in even more if needed.

I have to say, I'm digging the MessDrive Hybrid+

Fuzzy, yet kind of synthy, yet not out of control or noisemaker like.

[jfenderp]

[quote=joeinsprings;6452660]Ok. Here is the Messdrive Hybrid+ low gain clip:

http://media.putfile.com/Messdrive-H...-Gain-Settings

This was recorded Bass (Squier VMJ)>Messdrive>Boss BR-1.

The clip starts out with my clean tone, then I click the messdrive on. As I bring up the gain (it starts all the way at the bottom, hence no signal) I leave it where it is audible. Then I turn up the volume a bit to justify the signal loss. That is the sound on the lowest gain setting. I then move the vintage/modern over and start turning up the gain, but never more than 12, as the clip goes on.
QUOTE]


Thanks for the Clip! I like the messdrive more and more everytime I hear it. Have you tried the Submarine to compare with the lowest setting? I couldn't hear the lowest gain setting all that well due to my $1.99 work headphones but i'll listen to it again when I get home. From what I could hear it sounded like it still has the fuzzy character to it.

[stflbn]

And with that lowest gain setting on the MessDrive Hybrid+, how much variance is there in the Tone Knob Bass to Treble. I don't need a clip, just wondering how much variance lives in that Tone knob to go with what we heard in the clip showing the gain increases.

[LuvMusic]

Originally Posted by jfenderp

I do have one and I dig the way that it sounds by itself. The problem issue seemed to be that I keep the drive on the VT on about 10 o'clock and when I click on the El Grande it gets a little too "hairy" to say the least, even when I have the fuzz dialed almost all the way off. Now, if I set the drive on the VT to 0-1 then it was ok but it doesn't seem practical to have to adjust it while playing.
That was with the El Grande in front of the VT, when I got home I put it behind the VT and it behaved alot better but I haven't gotten to try it at our normal playing level. It seemed like it cut alot of the bassy fuzz that the El Grande has. I hope that I can try it out in the next couple days to see how it works setup this way.

Thanks for the response. FYI, there is a cross-over switch and a level adjust pot inside the pedal. You may be able to "tame" your El Grande by playing with these adjustments. Here is a link with a little more info:

http://bassfuzz.com/2008/09/14/mxr-m...s-fuzz-review/

I suspect I'll have to adjust these internal settings to get the fuzz sound I'm looking for.

I also plan on putting the fuzz after my VT (per your experience).

[jfenderp]

Originally Posted by LuvMusic

Thanks for the response. FYI, there is a cross-over switch and a level adjust pot inside the pedal. You may be able to "tame" your El Grande by playing with these adjustments. Here is a link with a little more info:

http://bassfuzz.com/2008/09/14/mxr-m...s-fuzz-review/

I suspect I'll have to adjust these internal settings to get the fuzz sound I'm looking for.

I also plan on putting the fuzz after my VT (per your experience).

I'll have to look more into the internal setting, I only thought that affected the deep control. On mine I can't really tell a difference when I engage the Deep setting so I thought it was rolled back already.

I'd definitly try it both ways, Tech21 recommends fuzz/distortion in front on the VT but I think it really depends on the settings that you will be using. Because I think if I wasn't using such a high setting on the drive then the El Grande might behave a little better sat in front, but IME it suits me better placed after the VT.

Ok, so any comments on the Submarine...suggestions, comments, experiences?

[musicelectronix]

Originally Posted by stflbn

I'm wondering if you keep the Messdrive+'s fuzz setting off, or very low if it's acceptably comparable to a Submarine.

Seem's possible. The pedal seems like a mutant cross between a Submarine and a Mess Drive.


.

I am a little bit distracted lately, can not keep tab on threads I used to

Anyway, no sir. As Joe said earlier, Hybrid+ and Submarine are VERY different pedals in every aspect. Even with the fuzz knob set to the lowest position, it wouldn't sound anything like Submarine and it wouldn't have enough boost.

Originally Posted by stflbn

And with that lowest gain setting on the MessDrive Hybrid+, how much variance is there in the Tone Knob Bass to Treble. I don't need a clip, just wondering how much variance lives in that Tone knob to go with what we heard in the clip showing the gain increases.

Both Messdrives share the same tone control arrangement, which is a lowpass filter. In other words, it is used to tame relatively high frequencies at the roll off point 3.2khz. At one extreme; there is no attenuation and it has lots of bite. It starts to cut the frequencies over 3.2khz while you turning it down to the point where it makes a really steep curve. Now that I think about it, it is not much different than a presence control.

[cybersnyder]

I consider the Submarine a "Better" pedal. It takes the tone of your bass and makes it sound "Better". I'm not 100% sure what happens, but the bottom seems a little tighter, the top a little smoother and it just sounds fatter to my ears. You can then boost the signal if desired. The tone knob is very simple straight up is flat. Turn to the right for treble boost, turn to the left for treble cut. There's some bass boost and cut in there as well, but in differing amounts. I like the tone knob at 10 o'clock for finger style and 2 o'clock for slap. Turn more to the right and it's great for tapping. More to the left and you get some old school sounds.

A Dual Submarine would be killer. On/Off and A/B. Set one for fingerstyle and one for slap.

[coolrunner989]

Originally Posted by cybersnyder

A Dual Submarine would be killer. On/Off and A/B. Set one for fingerstyle and one for slap.

I had two of them for a while for just that reason
back when I had a dozen pedals...oh for the days of disposable income again!

If Os made a dual sub I'd get it in a heartbeat

[musicelectronix]

Originally Posted by cybersnyder

I consider the Submarine a "Better" pedal. It takes the tone of your bass and makes it sound "Better". I'm not 100% sure what happens, but the bottom seems a little tighter, the top a little smoother and it just sounds fatter to my ears. You can then boost the signal if desired. The tone knob is very simple straight up is flat. Turn to the right for treble boost, turn to the left for treble cut. There's some bass boost and cut in there as well, but in differing amounts. I like the tone knob at 10 o'clock for finger style and 2 o'clock for slap. Turn more to the right and it's great for tapping. More to the left and you get some old school sounds.

A Dual Submarine would be killer. On/Off and A/B. Set one for fingerstyle and one for slap.

Oh man, you never stop lobbying for that I have been extremely busy with everything and couldn't get to the actual desinging part. But I have ideas flying for the ultimate submarine "world needs knobs" edition with switchable two channels. Plus balanced output for DI use and maybe a built in headphone output if space allows me to do so.

The fatten up effect is actually described as mixing 2nd order and octave up/down harmonics to a point where it doesn't sound distorted with professional sound systems. If you feed the output to an osciloscope, you would clearly see the deformations of the sinus curve; but inaudible to the naked ear

[B.C.]

Originally Posted by musicelectronix

Oh man, you never stop lobbying for that I have been extremely busy with everything and couldn't get to the actual desinging part. But I have ideas flying for the ultimate submarine "world needs knobs" edition with switchable two channels. Plus balanced output for DI use and maybe a built in headphone output if space allows me to do so.

The fatten up effect is actually described as mixing 2nd order and octave up/down harmonics to a point where it doesn't sound distorted with professional sound systems. If you feed the output to an osciloscope, you would clearly see the deformations of the sinus curve; but inaudible to the naked ear

O Os, you will have soooooooooo much of my money eventually.
Seriously though, I'm excited for that!