Envelope filter with level control?

[gibsualdo]

I'm currently looking for an envelope filter with a level knob, to control the volume of the signal. I've owned a a Digitech BSW which was too quiet in envelope filter mode, and currently a EHX Micro Q-tron which has an utterly ridiculous volume boost. I just want something that's not going to drop or raise my volume when engaged, and I figure the best place to start would be a pedal with a volume level control. So far I've only been able to find the Ibanez SB7, which says "auto wah", I know, but from what I gather it's actually an envelope filter (with synth functions too).

So does anyone know of any others out there, also does the SB7's "level" control do what it should? TBH I'm not too bothered about the overall quality of the effect's sound as long as it's fairly decent, doesn't have to be amazing. What's important to me is the volume control.

[four2oh]

it may be overkill as a filter, but the Frostwave Funk-A-Duck has a output volume knob..

best solution for dealing with volume spikes is compressor/limiter.

[coolrunner989]

MXR M-188 Bass Auto Wah might do what you're wanting

[gibsualdo]

Originally Posted by four2oh

it may be overkill as a filter, but the Frostwave Funk-A-Duck has a output volume knob..

best solution for dealing with volume spikes is compressor/limiter.

Unfortunately I don't have room on my pedalboard for another pedal, otherwise I'd probably just put my Micro Q-tron through a LS-2 or blend looper. I checked the Frostwave website, but they're out of Funk-A-Ducks right now, I will however be searching for one elsewhere. Thanks for the tip

Originally Posted by coolrunner989

MXR M-188 Bass Auto Wah might do what you're wanting

Does this do envelope filter as well as auto wah then? The rate and decay controls scream "dedicated auto wah" at me.

[roflol]

make room for a compressor.

[Jared Lash]

The MXR is definitely an autowah. One of my favorites, but not an envelope filter per se.

Definitely try out a Funk-A-Duck before buying. Sure, it has a level knob to avoid a volume boost or drop when engaging it, but it still cranks out some of the biggest volume spikes I've ever seen from a pedal. I wouldn't even think of gigging with it without a limiter.

I'm sure others will chime in with suggestions, but the only other filter that immediately comes to mind with a level/volume knob is the Robotalk, which is my favorite filter at the moment. It is currently discontinued but a new Robotalk that is filter only (no sample & hold ) is due out this summer.

Another suggestion would be to get a Meatball or a clone such as the Robot Factory Meatwad or the Barge Grinder. They don't have a level control, but they do have a blend knob which I think would solve your problem.

[coolrunner989]

i dont think the compressor suggestion is the best one, because when I've put my compressor after my wah/envelope filter it sounded..ok...but it killed the funky goodness that the pedals put out. but thats just me, and ive suggested the only thing that I know of that has a volume control.
carry on!

[tomvelsor]

rather than looking for one with a volume knob, look for just a really good one that doesent have this problem.

look at agent 00funk from chunk systems..very nice pedal..

[fivestringgecko]

Originally Posted by gibsualdo

Does this do envelope filter as well as auto wah then? The rate and decay controls scream "dedicated auto wah" at me.

Originally Posted by TheBigO

The MXR is definitely an autowah. One of my favorites, but not an envelope filter per se.

They're the same thing actually. Not sure why people use the different terms.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auto-wah

I've currently got an MXR M-188 on my board (still on the search for my "perfect filter") and really like it. The interesting thing about the MXR is that it's got a "shimmer" effect (they're word, not mine ) and that's what the Rate knob controls. The Decay knob controls how quickly the filter closes after you play a note.

It's a pretty good sounding pedal. I don't use the shimmer effect as it's simply too much for my taste, but for those that like it, it can get pretty wild. Most importanly though, it's got the volume control you're looking for.

Here's some clips if you're interested:
Pretty close to what I'm looking for: http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page...songID=6399717
Slap warble: http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page...songID=6399713
Messing with dials: http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page...songID=6399705

5sg

[grygrx]

I've been enjoying the Syle Green Filter. Here my review w/some samples.

[bassnug47]

ashdown envelope filter has a level knob and sounds great

[Jared Lash]

Originally Posted by fivestringgecko

They're the same thing actually. Not sure why people use the different terms.

It's semantics I suppose, but the convention I use (and what seems to be prevalent on TB) is to use the umbrella term filters which is subcategorized into envelope filters (dynamics controlled), auto wahs (LFO controlled) and wahs (manual controlled).

Whether or not that's the best terminology to use I don't know, but it helps because there is fairly big difference between something like the Auto Q and say the Q-Tron.

[bigchiefbc]

Originally Posted by fivestringgecko

They're the same thing actually. Not sure why people use the different terms.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auto-wah

They're really not. They CAN be, depending on the usage of a speaker. An envelope filter specifically uses an envelope follower to trigger the filter sweep. However, there are auto-wahs that use an LFO instead of an envelope follower. These would not be considered envelope filters, but they are auto-wahs. One is a subset of the other.

BTW - I love wikipedia as much as the next guy, but they are definitely not authoritative on anything.

[fivestringgecko]

Thanks for the clarification... it's always something I've been confused on. Like TheBigO said, I think I've always fallen into the group that uses the the term "envelope filter" generically.

So am I correct in thinking that they're kind of just different flavors of the same effect, that the only difference is the way they're built? You know, kind of like Mountain Dew and Mello Yello? Also, what does LFO mean?

5sg

[Jared Lash]

LFO means low frequency oscillator. Basically it generates waves (sine waves, square waves etc) and I believe in this case it means those waves that are created control the frequency of the filter. So what you play on the bass does not effect the sweep of the filter.

But with an envelope filter, the sweep of the filter depends on the volume level that enters the pedal. In this way it responds to your dynamics.

LFO's are used in a number of effects: tremolo, phaser etc.

Someone with more expertise will chime in to give better detail, but I believe that's all correct.

[Swimming Bird]

The Ibanez SB-7 is synth bass. AW-7 is an envelope filter (though they call it an autowah). I like it a lot -- it has a volume control, has the option of distortion before or after the filter, a drive knob for the distortion, lets you choose between wah and LPF (I assume wah is band pass) and has a fantastic sustain that I've never heard an envelope filter do. I find it a tad tame at times, but very usable.

[CapnSev]

Hmm, my "regular" Q-Tron doesn't have this problem at all. I can dial in the volume to be the same on or off pretty easily.

[markjazzbassist]

try a q-tron+ (gain control/boost control), meatball or clone, or Musitronics Mutron III (original), they have a gain control.

[gibsualdo]

Thank you all for your suggestions! I think I'm going to start off first, by trying the filters at the lower end of the price range. The cheaper ones I'll probably have a much better chance, of trying in a store before I buy, not to mention saving some £££ if I find one I like. If this doesn't work out I'll start searching for clips and what not for the rest, or perhaps just take a gamble.

Right now, I'm probably going to go for both Ibanez pedals, since I can return them if I'm not happy with them. But if that doesn't work out, I gotta say I'm very impressed with the Green Filter and may end up splashing out a few more pennies.

Originally Posted by Swimming Bird

The Ibanez SB-7 is synth bass. AW-7 is an envelope filter (though they call it an autowah). I like it a lot -- it has a volume control, has the option of distortion before or after the filter, a drive knob for the distortion, lets you choose between wah and LPF (I assume wah is band pass) and has a fantastic sustain that I've never heard an envelope filter do. I find it a tad tame at times, but very usable.

Have you tried compare the SB7's "autowah" to the AW7? I did look at the latter as well, but was considering trying the SB7 first, it sounded decent enough to me on the Ibanez website but the I was put off the AW7 by the lack of bass clips. Also, how does that level control work out on the AW7, does it cut the the sound altogether (as well as boost) or just kind of blend it in with the clean signal? I ask since some Boss pedals I've owned had "E Level" controls that just seemed to be more like a blend control, than an overall volume control. I'm looking for the latter.

Most probably I'll just end up ordering both, then send back one or both of them depending on the outcome. I'll try and post some comparison clips too when they arrive.

EDIT: Okay I've been thinking things through. Since I was going to get a Boss LS-2 (my second) for my Cool Cat chorus (at the other end of my chain from my Micro Q-tron) which has a bit of a volume boost but nothing compared to the 'tron, I figure I may as well at least try killing two birds with one stone first and have a go at putting a compressor at the end of the chain. If this doesn't work however, I shall revert back to my quest for a new envelope filter. I'll be looking for a compressor that works well placed after my BDDI and GT2, so I may still end up going back to my original plan, depending on how things work out.

[Swimming Bird]

Haven't tried the SB-7. Level on the AW-7 appears to be volume control, there is no blend option.

It's a surprisingly deep pedal, so if you end up trying it out, make sure you really spend some time. Let me know if you need settings.