Envelope Filter Settings

TJBass · #1 06-20-2009, 06:55 PM

What do you guys use, I have a DOD FX25b and I either get a thin, non-cutting thru tone from it or not enough sensitivity to sound different from the regular signal.

How do you have yours set?

TJBass · #2 06-20-2009, 06:59 PM

Ok, I know I just posted this, but maybe I need an auto wah, maybe thats what I was really looking for when I picked this pedal up. Should I keep it or trade off for a boss or digitech auto wah/synth bass pedal?

Ofcourse, if its just my settings I may hang on to it longer. I just really want to like this pedal and get to use it in a band setting.

bongomania · #3 06-20-2009, 07:15 PM

The thing is, settings will differ dramatically from one filter to the next, and are dependent on the levels and dynamics of the signal from your bass, which will vary between basses and between players.

The key is to work with one filter for a while and learn how to play it. Filters are an instrument, and they won't sound good until you learn how any specific one will respond to you, and adjust your playing to bring the best out of it.

groooooove · #4 06-20-2009, 09:19 PM

bongo couldent have put it better.

you really do need to learn how to play a filter. very few will always sound the same, and always sound good.

the FX25 filters tend to be tuff to set just right, so i see where your commin from. toy around with it long enougn and youll probably be happy, its a good pedal, the FX25B and the older FX25

Wyrm74 · #5 06-22-2009, 05:17 PM

I had pretty much the same problem with that pedal (or its forerunner anyway) about 13 years ago when I bought one. Same sound you are getting, and the filter just stayed open for what seemed like forever. I couldn't get it to quack! Then I had similar problems with every other filter I ever tried except for one. The only one I use?...the 3 Leaf Groove Regulator, and it is awesome. I needed something with a good sensitivity control, as the output on my bass is very hot. It just seemed to "overload" everything else and wouldn't let it operate the way it was supposed to. Getting a sound you like out of a filter has lots to do with finding one that "plays nice" with your bass. There is also a learning curve to this type of effect, as I am finding out for my self! You got to learn to "play" the effect too. Good luck to you.

trev5269 · #6 06-22-2009, 05:23 PM

with my miniqtron and bass balls ( used seperately ) I found my signal would either not cut through or be weak blah blah. However, I added the BBE sonic maximizer which I feel smooths out / just generally helps with filters. It adds presence where it is lacking after the signal has been filtered. Look into one theyre great.

kevteop · #7 06-22-2009, 05:25 PM

If you want a "trainer" envelope filter, try the MXR Bass Auto Q. It's typical MXR, very polite, easy to use, noise-free. It's a good pedal.

Then when you're sick of it being polite buy a Q-Tron, then when that's not enough call Mario at Robot Factory and tell him you want the most insane filter that humans can realistically cope with.

TJBass · #8 06-22-2009, 10:38 PM

I may look into that auto Q

Bob C · #9 07-08-2009, 08:41 PM

I'm starting to wonder why I don't hear about auto wahs in the many discussions of the three-way bass synth recipe (envelope, octave, fuzz).

I know "polite" is bad, but it seems it would be a good way to control the "volume spike" issue.

A lone auto wah may not cut it as the ultimate funk machine, but in a synth context, does it have merit?

cybersnyder · #10 07-08-2009, 08:53 PM

I'd recommend the Digitech BSW as something with a lot of variety. Not the absolute best at what it does, but can be had for around $55 if you keep your eye on the classified section. I was never able to get a sound that I remotely liked from the DOD FX-25. Others seem to like it, so maybe the one I tried was a dud.

Bob C · #11 07-08-2009, 09:01 PM

I gave the BSW a couple of tries in the music store, and it sounded kind of like a toy. But it's definitely worth the price, and maybe at that time I was of the mindset that every setting should be gold.

I'll have to give it another listen some time soon. My point with the synth recipe statement was that there is SO much discussion on this forum about how this filter or that one sounded great, but needed to be tamed with a limiter or what-have-you. Or it didn't cut it with such-and-such a fuzz. So maybe an auto-wah (as opposed to an envelope filter) would be more controlled in the three ingredient context.

Now I'm getting more and more curious about the Digitech pedal. Hmm.

fightthepower · #12 07-09-2009, 02:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob C

I gave the BSW a couple of tries in the music store, and it sounded kind of like a toy. But it's definitely worth the price, and maybe at that time I was of the mindset that every setting should be gold.

I'll have to give it another listen some time soon. My point with the synth recipe statement was that there is SO much discussion on this forum about how this filter or that one sounded great, but needed to be tamed with a limiter or what-have-you. Or it didn't cut it with such-and-such a fuzz. So maybe an auto-wah (as opposed to an envelope filter) would be more controlled in the three ingredient context.

Now I'm getting more and more curious about the Digitech pedal. Hmm.

The filters that need taming/limiting are the super-wet-funky ones like the Qtron and other Mutron clones. The FX25 needs to 'be played' more than any other filter I've used- the price of entry is cheap, but its not an easy beginner filter.

In the '3 ingredient' context, the most important piece is a filter with an effects loop and control over resonance. An autowah is just too different to really be a replacement for an envelope filter, though it is definitely more manageable than an envelope when combined in series with octave/fuzz. The problem is that you lose all the playing dynamics of the envelope and are stuck with its rate of modulation- and therefor may have a hard time keeping it in sync with the band. In an electronic setting for some genre's, the autowah is a staple sound, but a simple autowah like the boss or mxr won't cut it- you need something more along the lines of the Moog filter (just turn the envelope off) and an external LFO source that can be easily manipulated for different LFO, or 'wah' speeds. A simple option somewhere between the Boss and Moog+lfosouce equation is the CopilotFX Gyroscope; in addition to having a 'sample&hold' step filter mode, it has an autowah mode with an exp input for the rate so you can adjust the speed while playing.

Bob C · #13 07-09-2009, 06:17 AM

fightthepower,

Pardon my ignorance. I don't have a lot of field experience with autowahs OR envelope filters. Are you saying that when you vary your playing speed, the curve of an autowah's swell effect is a constant, thus resulting in sync problems?

fightthepower · #14 07-09-2009, 07:00 AM

Hey no problem, I was asking these same questions not a year ago.

Yes, this is the case. Imagine a wah pedal and with your foot, steadily and evenly rocking the wah back and forth-- this is what an LFO, or Low Frequency Oscillator is doing. An autowah is a filter controlled by LFO; whereas an 'envelope filter' could be that same filter, but its sweep would be controlled by envelope and not an LFO.

An lfo in an autowah like the boss or similar operates at a static speed, depth, and width that is not at all dependent or varied on playing dynamics, only the settings on the pedal. This makes it very stable and easy to use, but also more of a one-trick-pony in general (digital boss multimode filters aside

)

With an envelope filter, the filter sweep is controlled by the envelope, and the envelope reacts to your input- in general, you attack harder and it will sweep higher/longer, play softer and it will open less, or even not open at all and give you a big bassy bottom. With this dynamic control over the filter, you can be very expressive and adapt to just about anything.

Basically you have filters, and a few ways to control them. Some more highend filters have the ability to do all these types of filtering. The Moog filter for instance has its own EG-Envelope Generator and an Input that accepts expression pedals, or LFO's. This means you can use it like a wah, and envelope filter, an autowah, even an autowah with envelope-- it still moves at the same speed when you play, but the frequency center sweeps up and down as you play notes.

RCCollins · #15 07-09-2009, 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fightthepower

The filters that need taming/limiting are the super-wet-funky ones like the Qtron and other Mutron clones. The FX25 needs to 'be played' more than any other filter I've used- the price of entry is cheap, but its not an easy beginner filter.

the fx25 can benefit from limiting in my experience, particularly for long swells

Floridabwoy · #16 07-09-2009, 08:10 AM

12 | 1 | 1 respectively... I love my FX25B. It gets a great funky quack.
It all depends on your fingers though. If i play light it has a dubby no swell. When I dig in it really quacks and swells. So I can control the build with my guitar player when he lights it on fire.

Also, try turning up your mids (or tone).

Crabby · #17 07-09-2009, 10:43 AM

Now that I have my Groove Regulator and my Robotalk2, my filter search is pretty much over. These two are really amazing pedals and cover a lot of ground. The 3 leaf is very wet and drippy while the Robotalk2 is much more synthy and smooth.