Envelope filter without huge fidelity loss; and unreasonable expectation?

[Jim C]

Have been experimenting with the following:
FX25, FX25B, Mutron III (that I've had for over 25 years and appears to be working properly)

The FX's have a decent effect and I can live with the quirkyness of the filter but wish it had better fidelity; bass is boomy, high end is not that clear, bypass is just OK and I don't want to use a looper or any other pedal; always have a compressor in my chain so volume swells are not that big a deal

Mutron also has a nice effect although somehwat different; the whole drive volume thing is a hassle though and it too is not super hi-fi.

Is the muddyness / loss of clarity part of the deal with these filters?
The exact timbre of the overall effect is not that huge a deal so long as the fiedelity (both with the effect on and off) stays decent.

Or, is this an unreasonable expectation for a small, single pedal that is not super expensive?

[bongomania]

You might like the EMMA Discumbobulator. It's not as resonant as the ones you've got, but the tone is nice and clear.

[chicago_mike]

+1 on the Emma.

[billphreets]

Originally Posted by chicago_mike

+1 on the Emma.

+2 i wouldnt be without this

[XXL]

Another option is the 3leaf Groove Regulator. I find it really shines at gig levels much more than other filters Ive used and tried.

[silky smoove]

Originally Posted by XXL

Another option is the 3leaf Groove Regulator. I find it really shines at gig levels much more than other filters Ive used and tried.

That's what I'm using these days and I absolutely love it. It's not the most wild sounding envelope filter out there, but it doesn't destroy your tone and is still very coherent on a gig. I use it in a number of songs, both as a traditional funky bass part and as a solo section. It never lets me down.

[newbold]

There are also envelope PHASERs (pigtronix ep-1 and ep-2, EHX stereo polyphase and vintage polyphase for example) that might get you exactly where you want to go.

It wouldn't hurt to try the 3 leaf and emma. They're on my list of gear to try.

[Funkinthetrunk]

The new MXR M82 is the most Hi Fi sounding envelope filter I ever owned. It's crisp and clean.

[Mingus Addict]

EMMA was the first thing I thought of too...


I should note that I sold it because it didn't stand out enough in a live band mix. I don't think it would be a problem depending on the situation though. I was using it in a loud band with distorted guitar and cello.

[The Lurker]

You may also like a DOD 440 clone, like the Bottom Feeder (or whatever name it's sold under now).

[The Lurker]

Originally Posted by csala

Yeah, it's called the Boomstick Bottom Feeder and I happen to be selling one in the classifieds. Hope this isn't against TB rules...

Yeah, I have the Bottom Feeder version, but I thought they changed the name?

[billphreets]

Originally Posted by The Lurker

Yeah, I have the Bottom Feeder version, but I thought they changed the name?

how do you rate the bottom feeder? i got one coming next week ; )

[Jim C]

Thanks
Can anyone contrast and compare the Disumbobulator vs. the Bottom Feeder vs. the MXR M82 vs. the Groove Regulator?

Sounds like they all deliver clean full range tone and have varying degrees of funkiness.
Am wondering if the difference between them is personal preference or, does one have any extra stong points or weaknesses over the others.

[john keates]

Any low-pass filter will tend to loose clarity I think but there are ways around it.

The WMD Superfatman and the new MXR have a dry blend control which would help keep clarity and there are other dry blends like the x-blender and the Barge Concpts. If you go for the Barge, ask to have a switch to invert the polarity otherwise most filters will cause phase-cancellation (the Superfatman has a phase-switch built in).

You can always try combining it with a touch of distortion to liven up the sound and get some harmonics in there the 3-leaf has an effects loop for that and I believe you can order a Superfatman with a seperate input for the trigger so you can effectively side-chain it which is basically the same as an effects loop but you would need a way of splitting the signal. Running distortion before or after a filter can also work. Before will alter the sweep of the filter (because it changes your dynamics) but can sound really nice and growly. Distortion after the filter sounds more wild and Hendrixy but keeps the sweep intact.

There is also the option of something like the aphex exciter to get some more clarity in there. Maybe combine that with a blend.

I tend to think of filters as being just one ingredient of a sound which can combine with loads of other things (often compression, particularly if you have distortion after the filter.

Sorry... that turned into a bit of an essay.

[FilterFunk]

My Yesman+ works for me, especially in Mix mode.

[Jim C]

Originally Posted by bongomania

You might like the EMMA Discumbobulator. It's not as resonant as the ones you've got, but the tone is nice and clear.

Thanks to you guys, I'm learning a bunch about enveope filters.
Spent and hour or 2 on You Tube listening to clips of:

FX25 vs. Disumbobulator vs. the Bottom Feeder vs. the MXR M82 vs. the Groove Regulator

Needless to say, some of the clips were psycotic noise parties, some were as if these boxes were only for guitar, and some were quite helpful

The latter 4 boxes were all pretty good at preserving bass tone with the addition of the filter, but, they didn't have all that much funk; see what you mean about resonance Bongo

I now know that I'm NOT looking for a clean filter that can only do a wa-wa effect; must include the funk factor that is easily found with a Mutron III or FX25; might have to re-think this looper pedal as well as keep searhing for clips

Anybody got a clip that is down right funky with clear bass as well?

[funkindave]

A great filter that works for me is a Boss FT-2 dynamic filter.
Wicked on bass (Flea used one live throughout the 90's).
I have a musitronics mutronIII & a fx25b and the FT-2 is KILLER!
You can pick them up on Ebay.
Was only available for a couple of years in the 80's,i've bought 2 spares because i love em'.According to 'Bass player' magazine Flea interview 96' he used it on mid funk section on the track 'Coffee Shop' (One Hot Minute album).
Also Gail Ann Dorsey has used one for years(Tears for Fears 'Woman in Chains' intro).
Hope this helps.D

[warwick.hoy]

Check out the Source Audio Tri-Mod Wah if you get a chance. It's got some very high fidelity tones on it. There are a lot of settings but only some are suitable for bass I find,...but those that are are very transparent and musical sounding.

[groove pump]

I like to sometimes use an Electro Harmonix Q-Tron, but I made a happy discovery when I tried to make it work well with my 2-channel preamp (Ampeg BSP).

Since the Q-Tron doesn't have an output level control and it can be a little loud when it's active and quacking away, I thought I'd try it in the effects loop of my OD channel, but with that channel's gain down at the tame end of its range so that it would sound okay.

I've got output level controls on each preamp channel, so I can blend a clean sound with the effect and a foot switch controls the channel selector. Shazam! If I needed to do this without having my preamp channels, I could probably blend a clean and affected sound with something like the Boss LS-2.

[cheapbasslovin]

Only you can decide if you like it, but here is a clip of my old micro qtron in HP and BP modes blended with my clean bass. If you like these it's even funkier in parallel with an octave down.

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page...songID=7260881

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page...songID=7260876