Envelope Triggered Oscillation Pedal?

[icarussmicarus]

Hello people who know everything, thought i'd take some time off from lurking and actually post something.

I'm looking for a pedal that essentially sends oscillations through my signal chain as i play notes, getting kind of an artificial sustain that would continually re-trigger the rest of the effects in my chain. Kind of like how a synth can continually sustain due to the osscillation section.

I got the idea from listening to the Guayatone Ultron and i think the one of the Moog C-something pedals does something similar. However these are very expensive considering I really only want the one feature.

Help?

[bongomania]

Sadly I don't think you quite understand what oscillation is yet. Think of the sound of an older motorcycle or motorboat starting up and idling, then slowly revving up and eventually speeding away. It goes bup - bup - bup then bupbupbup then bububup then bbbp then brrrr then neeeaaaahhh. That transition from slow-spaced burps to a high whining tone illustrates how an oscillation at slow speeds is perceived as a cyclical repeating pattern, not a tone; and how once it reaches a certain speed (frequency) it then resembles a musical tone, and is no longer perceived as a repeating pattern.

A synth typically contains more than one oscillator. It will have one or more high-frequency oscillators which make "tones", and a low-frequency one which makes "patterns". The continuous sustain of a synth is a function of the high freq. (tone generator) osc. The cyclical patterns of the Ultron are from a low-freq. osc.

So what exactly are you trying to trigger, and what kind of oscillation are you thinking of? Maybe do you mean both, a tone plus a modulation of that tone to create peaks and valleys? The only way I could see that working would be with a synth pedal that generates its own tones and tracks your bass signal. Then run both sounds through a small mixer, into the rest of your effects.

[diechris]

Originally Posted by bongomania

Sadly I don't think you quite understand what oscillation is yet. Think of the sound of an older motorcycle or motorboat starting up and idling, then slowly revving up and eventually speeding away. It goes bup - bup - bup then bupbupbup then bububup then bbbp then brrrr then neeeaaaahhh. That transition from slow-spaced burps to a high whining tone illustrates how an oscillation at slow speeds is perceived as a cyclical repeating pattern, not a tone; and how once it reaches a certain speed (frequency) it then resembles a musical tone, and is no longer perceived as a repeating pattern.

A synth typically contains more than one oscillator. It will have one or more high-frequency oscillators which make "tones", and a low-frequency one which makes "patterns". The continuous sustain of a synth is a function of the high freq. (tone generator) osc. The cyclical patterns of the Ultron are from a low-freq. osc.

So what exactly are you trying to trigger, and what kind of oscillation are you thinking of? Maybe do you mean both, a tone plus a modulation of that tone to create peaks and valleys? The only way I could see that working would be with a synth pedal that generates its own tones and tracks your bass signal. Then run both sounds through a small mixer, into the rest of your effects.

that seriously cleared A LOT up in my head....

[B.C.]

Thanks Bongo, very good explanation.

To OP, so are you looking for something the provides infinite sustain or something to keep triggering a synth pedal or the like?

[niftydog]

Sounds to me like the OP wants a delay with an infinitely long decay time - one that's capable of being constantly on the threshold of feedback.

Boss Space Echo, or whatever it's called?

[icarussmicarus]

Holy.

I'm not looking for an infinately sustained static tone, more one that will continually recycle throught the waveform. Like as an example my BMS filters from point A to B and then sustains at B. What I would like to achieve is some method as to repeat the cycle of A to B, A-B-A-B-A-B etc. That is without having to play the note again to retrigger the effect.

Sorry if my understanding of the lingo is isufficient/incorrect.

[bongomania]

The only way to do that and not have the pulses of the secondary tone be just as loud as the peaks of your bass signal is with a process called sidechaining. You would have to mod the BMS with a sidechain input to control the filter opening and closing (not easy unless you are pretty experienced with that sort of thing) and run the pulsed-amplitude synth tone into that. That way the filter is being opened and closed by the synth signal, and the actual bass tone is running through the filter.

Actually nifty's right that a delay pedal could do something like that, but if you've ever played through a delay with loud/long repeats, you know how messy that is.

The only cheap way to do this that I can think of is to learn how to play fast repeats on each note using just your fingers.

[RCCollins]

Originally Posted by icarussmicarus

Holy.

I'm not looking for an infinately sustained static tone, more one that will continually recycle throught the waveform. Like as an example my BMS filters from point A to B and then sustains at B. What I would like to achieve is some method as to repeat the cycle of A to B, A-B-A-B-A-B etc. That is without having to play the note again to retrigger the effect.

Sorry if my understanding of the lingo is isufficient/incorrect.

I used to use an Akai Variwah to achieve this effect. One of its modes is basically a rolling sweep wah filter with expression pedal speed control.

[niftydog]

Originally Posted by icarussmicarus

...some method as to repeat the cycle of A to B, A-B-A-B-A-B etc. That is without having to play the note again to retrigger the effect.

Oh, maybe an autowah comes close, but it won't be envelope triggered for the first note in a sequence.

Definition needed:

Autowah (IMO) is a filter with a sweep controlled by a low frequency oscillator - it goes wah wah wah wah wah wah wah all day long all by itself.

An envelope filter is a filter that's sweep is triggered by the amplitude of a note.

Sounds like you want a bit of both!? I've never heard of such a beast, but it could be interesting.

But yeah, you can get close with a delay pedal - I know it's not quite what you had in mind.

[niftydog]

Wait, doesn't the MXR BASS AUTO Q do something like this with the 'shimmer' effect?

[bongomania]

Either way, it will only have an audible effect as long as each note is sustaining naturally, and will fade out as the note dies- the OP seemed to want more sustain for more of the effect. ???

[dannybuoy]

The forthcoming Robot Factory Photron Filter may be what you want. It has a very synthy sounding filter from a Korg MS-20 and has a 'ghost wah' stomp switch that you can press to initiate the filter sweep at any time. You can probably set it up to work like the envelope filter on the BMS but stomp on the switch for some added bow-chicka-wow-wow.

[icarussmicarus]

Thanks for the help, I think i might try running my dd20 or my trem before my BMS for a while and see if i can get something approximate. Seems like often in the bass effects world buying a decent synth is the easiest way.