EQ pedal for mids

[rasbass]

Originally Posted by lsabina

Try a VFE Rocket EQ. It has a fully parametric mid and shelving low and high.
http://vfepedals.com/rocket-eq.html

I don't have any experience with a parametric EQ and am wondering if something like the Rocket, with one band of fully parametric (and two with fixed EQ) will suffice for a Kay CJ UB (with a myriad of acoustic quirks) or if I would be better off with a pedal with 3 bands of para EQ, like the WMD or Empress.

Any suggestions?

[sunbeast]

It is hard to say for your case. The Rocket doesn't list its frequency points for the Bass and Treble controls, though the addition of the sub filter on an internal control would be super useful for an upright bass. Given that the Rocket isn't Bass-specific, I would guess its Bass control will probably reach into the upper bass region, which could be good or bad depending on whether you needed to boost or cut. The Rocket looks pretty awesome on paper really for tweaking an electric (and if I didn't already have the WMD I'd probably try one), though for a bass with "a myriad of acoustic quirks" you might be better off with a pedal like the WMD or Empress where you can really hone in on a number of specific frequency areas to level it out.

[lsabina]

The VFE Rocket EQ does offer a mod option. I spoke to Peter at VFE about it, but decided against it. It is their "Rocket EQ custom frequencies mod*- Select the frequencies of the 3 EQ bands" option.

[Flux Jetson]

I'd go with the WMD (or something like it) for your case Isabina. If you go with some ~custom~ thing there's a good chance they'll get it wrong when they revoice the other bands. I mean, they may get it wrong simply because you yourself may not know exactly which freq bands they need to tune it too, and they'd be constructing something based on your suggestions.

A fully PEQ with three bands would better suit you. That way you can discover which areas will work best for you. Keep in mind that those needs WILL change depending on the venue, the music, or even the climate/environment that affects the sound of your upright. So having three fully adjustable bands is far better than having two fixed bands and one flexible one.

PEQs are easy to use once you get your head wrapped around their ethos. Each band works exactly the same way. You select a frequency with the FREQ control, then either turn that frequency UP or DOWN with the level control. You can add "Q" if you like which adds flavor or depth to the band. Now, understanding just one band makes you understand every single PEQ ever made, they all operate on that same set of instructions.

Selecting the FREQ is pretty easy to do. When deciding where to set the FREQ control, first set the LEVEL control to either a severe amount of CUT or BOOST. Now, simply sweep the FREQ knob (while playing a note or something) until the area you wish to work with shows up. And it WILL show up, you'll hear it when you hit it. Once you locate the general frequency area, then you can set the LEVEL and Q controls until your ears are happy. Then move on to the next band, lather, rinse, repeat.

It's really no different than using a graphic eq ... you select which frequency you wish to address, and turn it either up or down. But with a graphic you're fenced in with the freqs the manufacturer has provided to you on each little slider. With a PEQ you have infinite choices over where any eq'ing takes place. "Q" is like setting just a few of the graphic eq's sliders in one area ... more "Q" is like using more sliders to make a wider shape of influence. Less "Q" is like using fewer sliders to make a more narrow shape of influence. Let's say on the graphic you set up a "V" shape of a cut in a certain area. Adding "Q" makes the V shape wider and wider ... decreasing Q makes the V shape more and more narrow looking.

Actually, technically, it is the other way around ... adding Q increases the emphasis in a given area (which increases the focus in that area, effectively narrowing the "V"), but I explained it the other way around to keep things less confusing. So increasing Q increases the intensity of focus on the FREQ band you've selected (making it more narrow) so the band has it's attentions focused on fewer bands, which intensifies the effect. Increasing the Q is like telling it to intensify it's attention to a smaller area, thereby increasing it's effect on that area. BUT! .... You really don't need to care about these technical aspects, just follow your ears to be honest.

A typical setting for electric bass is to boost the lows, cut the mids, and boost the highs. I am clueless about how uprights are treated though.

I hope this helped.

[lsabina]

Thanks, Flux, but I'm happy with my VFE. Perhaps your post was meant for the OP or rasbass? And Peter at VFE offered to do a mod at anytime, not just upon ordering--the stock version suits my needs fine.

[Flux Jetson]

Originally Posted by lsabina

Thanks, Flux, but I'm happy with my VFE. Perhaps your post was meant for the OP or rasbass? And Peter at VFE offered to do a mod at anytime, not just upon ordering--the stock version suits my needs fine.

Oh man, I totally screwed that up!

Sorry .. I meant to address that remark to rasbass.

DOH!

I'll try to pay closer attention. Geez ....

[mowburger]

thanx for the heads up on the VFE, I've been looking for a Para Mid, and the bass and trouble shelves are great for what I want. The HPF & LPF and clean boost push this little unit up on my gas list!

[Flux Jetson]

I hear so little about the BYOC PEQ. Seems like an easy build, 3 bands of full PEQ .. $119. I've been so tempted to try it. I'm always freekin about noise issues though. So I'm reluctant to buy one unless I can get testimony or some sortof demo (audio - video - whatevero).

The other one that looks mondo cooly is that Source Audio programmable eq. Thing is, those Source Audio FX all look like they're made of plastic. I can't really tell. But they sure do look like the housings are some type of plastic. If so, I'm out. But for $150 that programmable EQ does looks nice .... as long as it's not plastic. And the other issue is since it's 100% digital I wonder if the AD-DA converter is artificial sounding or nice and organic, like analog.

Hmmmm........

[rasbass]

Originally Posted by Flux Jetson

Oh man, I totally screwed that up!

Sorry .. I meant to address that remark to rasbass.

DOH!

I'll try to pay closer attention. Geez ....

I figured it was for me. Thanks Flux.

Follow up question: what impact, if any, between setting EQ up before the amp and running it through the effects loop? Thanks.

[Flux Jetson]

It depends on the amp in question. Let's assume that the FX Loop comes after the amp's own EQ stage. Well, at that point you'd be putting the PEQ after the amp's onboard EQ if you put the PEQ through the FX Loop.

I don't believe this would cause any probems .. per se .. all it would do is sound differently than if you placed the PEQ before the amp's input stage. There are goods and bads to either configuration. In the case of electric bass, the "stompbox eq" can be used to kick the amp in the nuts and put it into an overdriven state, which might sound cool. Placing it into the FX Loop might be good for increasing the actual volume of the amp on demand rather than overdriving the input stage with the eq.

So what I'm going to do here is fall back on the lousy assed answer of "just see what it sounds like and make your choice". But that's really what it comes down to. It will most likely sound better to you with the rig set up one way or another, empirical testing will just have to prove which method is the one that suits you the best.

Sorry, I hate not being able to do anything other than state the obvious.

So I'm donning my Space Cape, my hat, and medalions .. as I stand fists upon hips, chest thrust forward, cape flowing in the wind, and chin held high I declare to the Universe ....

"Bow before me! For it is I .. Captain Obvious!"

(geez... sorry ...)

[BrandonBass]

Parametrics in theory should be the best, but sometimes it's not worth the hassle in live situations . I'm satisfied w my boss geb7

[Flux Jetson]

I suppose it all depends on how well practiced one is with PEQs. I find them easier to use that graphics, myself. There just aren't the visual cues that a graphic has. PEQs are easier to zero-in on whatever bandwidth it is you wish to deal with, just sweep the FREQ control until it shows up.

But just to qualify my opinion, I suppose my preference for the peq may stem from decades of experience using analog synth filters, so it's territory I'm very familiar with.

And once again we fall into the same old thing of "everyone has their own ideas of what ~good~ is" thang.

[sunbeast]

Originally Posted by rasbass

I figured it was for me. Thanks Flux.

Follow up question: what impact, if any, between setting EQ up before the amp and running it through the effects loop? Thanks.

Depending on the gain-staging, gain settings, and EQ settings in your amp, where the FX loop is in the amplifier's circuit and other factors, the signal going to the FX loop will usually be much higher than the signal going into the amp. Not all stomp-boxes are designed with enough headroom to take a line-level signal, and so the FX loop could cause the EQ pedal to clip/distort. Rack effects end to use their own wall wart power supplies with higher voltages than your standard 9 volt pedal to give them the higher headroom to take and put out higher signal levels. The Empress and the WMD both offer the ability to use higher input power voltages than the standard 9 volts in order to give you enough headroom for this very reason (though again it may not be necessary depending on the gain-staging in your particular amp). The Empress also has a switch that attenuates the input gain for the same reason (kinda like the active/passive switch on an amp). I've been using my WMD at 24 volts lately out of curiosity and I definitely prefer the feel. I also ran my Empress at 18 volts when experimenting with it in the FX loop of a very gainy amp to good effect.

Another potential difference is if you use more extreme Q settings on your PEQ pedal- the higher the Q and gain, the more resonance up to the point of oscillation in some circuits. Your amplifier's signal could potentially push this resonance higher if it is putting more prominence on those EQ centers already before the pedal, whereas the Q of the EQ on most amplifiers is relatively mild so the reverse wouldn't be the case.

Like Flux said, the best way to choose is to just try both options in the chain and see what works best for your needs. If you are putting it in the FX loop and your particular pedal has the option of use with a higher voltage power supply, I would recommend using one to avoid the potential for clipping (though clipping shouldn't do any damage to anything- just sounds horrible!).

[sunbeast]

Originally Posted by Flux Jetson

I suppose it all depends on how well practiced one is with PEQs. I find them easier to use that graphics, myself. There just aren't the visual cues that a graphic has. PEQs are easier to zero-in on whatever bandwidth it is you wish to deal with, just sweep the FREQ control until it shows up.

But just to qualify my opinion, I suppose my preference for the peq may stem from decades of experience using analog synth filters, so it's territory I'm very familiar with.

And once again we fall into the same old thing of "everyone has their own ideas of what ~good~ is" thang.

I was pretty nervous when I originally got my old Empress ParaEQ as I didn't have much experience with them, though I have used a Walkabout for years with 3 bands of semi-parametric EQ. I ended up finding them much more intuitive and useful than a graphic EQ, simply because you know the frequency you want IS definitely represented somewhere as opposed to an approximate frequency area! Just boost the gain, turn the knob til you hear the frequency/range (depending on your Q setting) you are looking for, fool with the Q to get it just right, then adjust the gain to taste. After a little while it becomes second nature!

[Flux Jetson]

Originally Posted by sunbeast

Depending on the gain-staging, gain settings, and EQ settings in your amp, where the FX loop is in the amplifier's circuit and other factors, the signal going to the FX loop will usually be much higher than the signal going into the amp. Not all stomp-boxes are designed with enough headroom to take a line-level signal, and so the FX loop could cause the EQ pedal to clip/distort. Rack effects end to use their own wall wart power supplies with higher voltages than your standard 9 volt pedal to give them the higher headroom to take and put out higher signal levels. The Empress and the WMD both offer the ability to use higher input power voltages than the standard 9 volts in order to give you enough headroom for this very reason (though again it may not be necessary depending on the gain-staging in your particular amp). The Empress also has a switch that attenuates the input gain for the same reason (kinda like the active/passive switch on an amp). I've been using my WMD at 24 volts lately out of curiosity and I definitely prefer the feel. I also ran my Empress at 18 volts when experimenting with it in the FX loop of a very gainy amp to good effect.

Another potential difference is if you use more extreme Q settings on your PEQ pedal- the higher the Q and gain, the more resonance up to the point of oscillation in some circuits. Your amplifier's signal could potentially push this resonance higher if it is putting more prominence on those EQ centers already before the pedal, whereas the Q of the EQ on most amplifiers is relatively mild so the reverse wouldn't be the case.

Like Flux said, the best way to choose is to just try both options in the chain and see what works best for your needs. If you are putting it in the FX loop and your particular pedal has the option of use with a higher voltage power supply, I would recommend using one to avoid the potential for clipping (though clipping shouldn't do any damage to anything- just sounds horrible!).

This is nothin' but a whole lotta truth. Everything in this post is correct by my own experiences.

And I also like that this person knows how to spell ~definitely~ .... (what a relief!)

There is no "a" in ~definitely~, and only one "u" in nuclear. ("Nucular" just bugs me for whatever reasons, especially when supposedly college educated speakers use it). It's a crack about how often you may see "definately" on the webzz. When people say "on here" when speaking about something written IN a forum, for some reason that seems to chap my ass as well. This kinda stuff shouldn't bug me (considering the number of colloquialisms I utilize in my own posts combined with my numerous spelling errors as well), but due to whatever flaws exist in my personality , they do. Ranting hijack complete.

[Flux Jetson]

Hey Sunbeast .... does the WMD go into self oscillation? I'm a total filter freak (to the point of needed a 12 step program for help) and I particularly like self coscillating resonant filters. I mean, I actually use modular synth filters sometimes (although some can be a bit noisey).



I've also got a Line 6 M13 which has a few filter gizmos in it, and a wah pedal that I've re-boxed into a standard stompbox for that parked wah sound (I think you and I have crossed paths on that trick before, que no?).

Hit the link in my sig to confirm how sick I am with this stuff! I even have this oddball 2 channel Jazz bass that I use synth modules to provide me with pickup-mix presets (here's the patch) .....



I can A/B two different pickup mixes with this setup, as well as having a four channel parallel signal routing for parallel FX and EQ and preamp chains that all get mixed back together before being split once more into two amp channels. Wahoo!



So do tell .... does the WMD go into self oscillation? All the bands? Safe to assume it's a sine wave if so? Thanks!

[Flux Jetson]

One more thing .... I'm juggling between a nice three+ band PEQ (ie: WMD) and the Phonic i7600 fully programmable 30 band graphic EQ. The Phonic is around 3 Benjamins as opposed to the two hunnerd buckola WMD. The Phonic is 2 channel (aka "stereo") with 30 user presets and also doubles as a freq analyzer. I can use the 2 channels to A/B between using the same synth module setup that I use for the 2-preset pickup mix trick I have going on. That way I can A/B between two EQ settings, with 30 presets of "A/B pairs" available to me.

But if the WMD does self oscillation .. this is gonna be a tough choce!

Thanks ....

[sunbeast]

My WMD definitely does do self-oscillation wih Q and Gain cranked on any channel. Wish it had a selectable Expression input for that stuff! Fortunately my Iron Ether Xerograph does that really well (though 3 bands of fun is better than 1!).

[sunbeast]

That other EQ sounds right up your alley though...