"Extra Something" Pedal for Synth

[jufros]

I really hate choosing pedals by size, but after I rearranged my synth rig last night, I realized that I can fit another MXR-sized pedal on my board. If I can my BSW and/or MI Audio Blue Boy Deluxe, I'd have room for something larger or a few pedals.

My board isn't that unusual for a synth board: BOD, BMS, GEB-7, Brown Dog, Blow Torch (willing to sacrifice at this point), Orbit, ODB-3, Enigma, FX25, Moog, LS-2, BSW, Blue Boy Deluxe, Gemini Drive, GI Fuzz, AF-9, CE-5, SA Tri-Mod Phaser, Duncan Shape Shifter, LMB-3 (see post your pedalboard thread)

Predictably, I'm usually using some variant of the octave->fuzz->filter combo. Sometimes I'll take one LS-2 channel and run the Maxon on HP while I set the Moog or Enigma on LP.

Anyway, I'm working on an electronica project with a drummer and guitarist and I'm looking for something a little more unique and interesting to add to my setup. I'm definitely into really aggressive sounds, but I aim for mellower ones as well.

Considering:

Copilot Gyroscope - I'm interested to know how the filtery side of the pedal sounds on bass. The fact that it's LFO controlled and you can control the rate with an expression pedal is really intriguing. I'm less interested in arpeggiation and "step" filtering (ala Prometheus) but I want to get more movement in my sounds.

Mid-Fi Electronics Peace Gun - What exactly is the deal with this pedal? It's a filter + fuzz in one pedal but is the filter envelope or LFO controlled?

WMD Geiger Counter - I'm really into electro/house music and would love to have something that can just be as angry and mangled as I want it to be. Expensive, but maybe what I need to pull off Justice sounds and would be too much fun with the Moog. Low end loss?

Robot Factory Pulse Synth - Does anyone here have one of these? It looks absolutely amazing. I'm pretty torn between this and the Geiger.

Robot Factory MS-20 Filters - Crazy versatile and I'm sure excellent quality. Is it going to offer me significantly different sounds and textures than I'm getting with the Moog?

Robot Factory LFO Mod Box - Motion could add some really interesting textures to my current sounds. I'm mostly using tremolo and the Moog expression pedal for "wobble" at the moment.

EHX Micro POG - ok not so interesting... but I could use it to add in a clean suboctave or octave up in a whacky place in my signal chain.

[gastric]

The Geiger Counter had me interested as well. There's a decent conversation here: Things just got serious over at WMD - The Geiger Counter And I'm not really sure what to draw for a final conclusion. Pricey, complicated (maybe too complicated to use live if you want more than a couple sounds?), and reported low end loss. These types of pedals always draw a lot of interest for me due to their seeming unique sounds.

[rratajski]

I can tell you now, the gyroscope wasn't my cup of tea.

Was it cool? For sure! Was it usable in a band setting? Nope.

The arpeggiation was way cool, except that even in bass mode, there were clicks and pops that IMHO could be potentially speaker-damaging. The steps got lost once a g****r came into the mix. The "tremolo-ish" side of the pedal, again, sounds great for solo stuff, but once a g****r comes into the mix, it's drop-out city.

[jufros]

Hmm.. lots of low end loss with the WMD... that's definitely out.

[gastric]

Originally Posted by jufros

Hmm.. lots of low end loss with the WMD... that's definitely out.

Temper that with FTP's comment that he could increase the overall volume output of the pedal to increase the bass yeild. If I read into his posts correctly he's apparently sweeping it with LPF to cut highs anyway so he's cutting the highs thus negating the boost they'd be getting as well.

[kevteop]

Originally Posted by jufros

Robot Factory Pulse Synth - Does anyone here have one of these? It looks absolutely amazing. I'm pretty torn between this and the Geiger.

You don't get much bottom end out of the Pulse Synth, that's why I sold mine in the end. Shame because it sounds really kooky, you can get some great nerdy sci-fi sounds out of it with the LFO controlling the pulse width.

It also has issues tracking some active basses, it's weird. Worked OK for my fretless Stingray but I had to pop my Thumb bass into passive mode to get it to track well.

Edit: Have you tried a Bassballs? It can be interesting as a "colour" pedal after other synthy noises. Sounds really good after a BMS. They're cheap enough, could be worth giving one a try.

[jufros]

I hear you but $300 seems a bit steep for a pedal with such a severe limitation. I could have the Robot Factory Photron for that dough, but if it's not going to be way better than the Enigma for aggressive synth stuff, I'm still at a loss.

I could be into the Bassballs. Didn't think of that. It's really too bad that the Pulse Synth can't churn out much low end. I wonder if Mario could modify the design for better bass response. I could also be into blending it with the MXR BOD. In fact I like that idea. Solo the Growl on the BOD and blend it in parallel with a second higher frequency loop.

Could you compare the Pulse Synth tracking to BMS tracking?

[gastric]

Originally Posted by jufros

I hear you but $300 seems a bit steep for a pedal with such a severe limitation.

I don't disagree. I personally take issue with a lot of pedals, they all seem to have some odd "issue". Level drop, level boost, low end loss, something that seems fairly obvious to me but apparently wasn't to the manufacturer.

[JMDT]

Well, you have almost everything covered; mostly two or three times.

I'll think out of the box for a second. Things you don't have that could give you some thing extra are:

Ring modulator - you are in a genre where you cam get away with using a ring modulator musically. the Heliotrope, android and antenna are all in an MXR sized box.

Pitchfactor - The pitchfactor has so many possibilities and strange sounds. In instrumental based music where you have more sonic territory to fill it can become a second instrument and open new horizons. It is large and expensive, but you should give it a try to see if its for you

Deep impact/G5/OS. - If you are looking for synth sounds these guys are worth a look. Again larger than MXR sized, but worth a thought.

Delay/Reverb - A bit of delay or reverb can really add to what you are doing. On bass I like to use the Boss RV-3 to add a little something extra to what I'm doing if I'm in a situation where it won't make me sound too muddy. There are plenty of small reverb and delays

Brassmaster clone - these guys are not gated, but have a very synthy texture that will give you a different flair than the typical gated fuzz.

Those are just some thoughts for what they're worth.

[bongomania]

Originally Posted by JMDT

Ring modulator - you are in a genre where you cam get away with using a ring modulator musically. the Heliotrope, android and antenna are all in an MXR sized box.

+1, this was my first thought too. The ZVex Ringtone might be right up your alley.

[gastric]

I've been experimenting with a BOSS VF-1. I built a simple two button pedal to control it via Radio Shack parts (one button to turn the whole patch on/off, the second for whatever you want to assign it for, or use an expression instead of a second button) and have been treating it as a simple pedal, though it's mounted in a rack. You could easily mount it to your pedal board as well. Velcro hook on the bottom, stick it to your board, velcro loop on top, stick your Moog LPF on top of it as it's just slightly wider than the MOOG. Only problem would be seeing the display to know what patch you've selected.

But it has a TON of great effects. Bitcrusher, synth, and some serious bread-n-butter effects with TONS of controls for each (usually beyond your typical stomp controls). You could run stereo outs from it if you wanted for ping-pong delay, panning, use it's spacial RSS 3D sound processor (haven't tried it), and on and on. Disadvantage in your case would be the size and power brick. But you can get them for $100-$150 shipped and build the on/off pedal for under $10 via Radio Shack parts.

[kevteop]

Originally Posted by jufros

It's really too bad that the Pulse Synth can't churn out much low end. I wonder if Mario could modify the design for better bass response. I could also be into blending it with the MXR BOD. In fact I like that idea. Solo the Growl on the BOD and blend it in parallel with a second higher frequency loop.

Could you compare the Pulse Synth tracking to BMS tracking?

I used to run mine in parallel with an OC-2 using an LS-2 to blend them and it did sound good. I had all three of them stuck in the loop of my Meatwad and I remember the first time I switched on that combo in my first rehearsal with a new band, the singer turned around and yelled "Play more like that!"

Tracking... As I remember it wasn't as good as the BMS, but it's not far off. And it's analogue so there's no latency at least. Definitely ask Mario about the low end if you're thinking about ordering, because a bit more beef would really improve that pedal.

Speak Onion's got one too, or had one, maybe he can offer his opinion. Haven't seen him around for a while though so it might be worth PM-ing him.

[rnilson]

+1 on ring mod or a bit crusher.
With the heliotrope you can get both ring mod and a bit crushed sound. It is an awesome pedal. Have you thought about a noisebox... I am taking mine off my board but you might dig it. It sounds very unique...
You can hear samples of both here:
http://soundclick.com/rnilson

[jufros]

I had strongly considered the heliotrope when I picked up the orbit. Worth having both?

[rnilson]

From the clips I have heard they are a pretty different beast....but I have no direct interaction with an orbit.

[jufros]

Can you use a Y splitter to control two filters with the same expression pedal? You could do some really cool parallel filtering stuff that way if it works.

[rottenramone]

i second the pitchfactor. its really another instrument in itself. but if u want justice type sounds, i reckon compressing the hell out of a slap bass.

[Mr. Pickles]

Hey Jufros,

Have you considered a Subdecay Noisebox. It's very aggressive and would fit your size requirement. I have mine in a parallel processing loop on the LS-2. It's paired with a Soul Provider and I can get some very unique sounds out of this combo.

I think John davis of Nerve is using one on his synth board and I think I can hear it on their myspace song "Far".

Low end loss is minor, but I use it with the SP's octave down.
Sounds excellent with the OC-2 as well.

Good luck.

[fightthepower]

Originally Posted by jufros

Considering:

Copilot Gyroscope - I'm interested to know how the filtery side of the pedal sounds on bass. The fact that it's LFO controlled and you can control the rate with an expression pedal is really intriguing. I'm less interested in arpeggiation and "step" filtering (ala Prometheus) but I want to get more movement in my sounds.

Robot Factory LFO Mod Box - Motion could add some really interesting textures to my current sounds. I'm mostly using tremolo and the Moog expression pedal for "wobble" at the moment.

Originally Posted by jufros

Can you use a Y splitter to control two filters with the same expression pedal? You could do some really cool parallel filtering stuff that way if it works.

A Moog CP-251 wouldn't fit anywhere on your board, but with it you could control multiple parameters on a pedal or pedals with one exp pedal plugged into the CP-251 and using its CV outs. You can also just use its CV outs to send multiple LFO's to control different filter cutoffs or whatever you'd like. It's like an ultra 'deluxe modbox'.

Using the CP with your Moog and/or Enigma filters would also net you all the tones available from the Gyroscope; The Gyro is just a filter with no envelope, just two lfo's- a (faux s&h) stepped wave and triangle waves modulating the filter. The CP-251 has those waves and more, which you would route into the MoogLPF's 'Freq' input, and the Enigma's expression input (my mp201 works with all my EHX pedals that have exp inputs).

Originally Posted by jufros

WMD Geiger Counter - I'm really into electro/house music and would love to have something that can just be as angry and mangled as I want it to be. Expensive, but maybe what I need to pull off Justice sounds and would be too much fun with the Moog. Low end loss?

This thing is capable of many many tones. Lots of good and bad. When I first got it I went through most of the pedal late at night with the volume low and thought that it cut lows badly at first, but there are definitely plenty of available tones with a healthy low end. I don't have it on my board currently because the majority of its sounds that I like, I can do a little better with other pedals. It can do dirt sounds very reminiscent of the Prunes&Custard and some Devi fuzz's, harsh ring modulation tones, and kind of in the Orbit/Helio's respective territories. A clean blend would have been an excellent addition to the pedal. I prefer the fuller and warmer sounds coming from my analogue pedals, but its a cool pedal nonetheless and I've been holding onto it even though it hasn't been part of my bass rig for a bit- I think it may go back on the board for a while, and ultimately end up as part of my ableton live rig for crushing beats.

Robot Factory MS-20 Filters - Crazy versatile and I'm sure excellent quality. Is it going to offer me significantly different sounds and textures than I'm getting with the Moog?

It is similar to the Moog in that I think it makes an excellent synth filter, and just a 'good' envelope filter. The Photron has great clarity (attributed by mario to the 15v ac power supply) and really preserves the tone going into it, for better or worse; when the filter is on and all the way open, there is very little coloration, it almost sounds perfectly 'clean'. (for subbass stuff I like the Moogs coloration). It's resonant range is much tighter and more focused than the Moog which can make for some nice punchy tones and good dynamic filtering, though it doesn't produce the same huge round sub tones that the Moog does. I prefer the Moog in general for lowpass filtering, but the MS-20 sounds great and could cover a lot of ground as the only filter on a synth board, as well as an addition to the Moog. I wouldn't recommend it for a do-it-all funky filter though (that vote goes to the Grinder).

[jufros]

The CP would be absolutely amazing but I don't think I'll have the room for it. I'm thinking...
SELL:
Enigma (replace with Photron)
Maybe MXR BT

Add a 2nd line selector to the smaller board and have BMS in loop 1 with GI Fuzz, Maxon AF-9 in loop 2.

Buy:
Photron
Pulse Synth
to make up the backbone of my 2nd main loop that would culminate in the Photron. I'd run bod->geb-7, brown dog, moog, etc in loop 1. This way I can blend the pulse synth in, achieve best tracking with it, and have a gnarly dual filter setup at the end of the chain.