first hand experience with the Line6 M13?

JohnDavisNYC · #1 03-05-2009, 07:20 AM

Now, let me preface this post by stating that i am generally a multi-hater, but have been thinking a bunch about where i need to go sonically, and the capabilities of the M13 seem to be pretty much EXACTLY what i need... i'm thinking about it as an extension of my dysfunctional relationship with the DL4...

as far as what i want to do with it, i am pretty sure that it will work fine for me (although I need to check if the expression inputs will work with the outputs from my moog mp201... or maybe control via midi...) i am just wondering if people have used it and found the overall tone of the unit to be good... is it true bypass, etc? or is the bypass sound at least cool with bass?

a client brought one into the studio, and it seemed pretty cool, but i couldn't really tell, as it was on guitar and it was a jazz session.

anyway, gonna try to find some time to check one out, but until then, any insights would be awesome.

john

Toasted · #2 03-05-2009, 07:42 AM

David Wilson had one for a short time.

JohnDavisNYC · #3 03-05-2009, 07:54 AM

hmmm... doesn't sound promising!

FWIW, this would be as a final time domain type processor AFTER my whole analog board, to have multiple delay, modulation, drive, and looping options... and hopefully all controllable with my moog mp201...

john

Mr. Pickles · #4 03-05-2009, 08:01 AM

I've owned a few of the Line6 rack "pro" units and always found the midi implementation and expression capabilities to be very sound. I'm sure that their technology has been ported over to the M13. Basically, you're getting the DM4, DL4, MM4, and DM4, all seamlessly integrated and with the bonus of an expanded looper. The switches are upgraded as well, as I think Line 6 took the reliability issues to heart.

I don't know much about the Moog controller, but I assume it sends midi, cv, and has expression capabilities, correct? It seems like that would be killer a combo.

As a time domain processor and looper, I would say go for it.

JohnDavisNYC · #5 03-05-2009, 08:04 AM

it has CV and midi... i'm trying to get the skinny on the expression voltage that the M13 uses, and whether it sends on TIP, returns on RING, etc... so i can make the appropriate cables...

i hate midi, so i'm hoping to not have to go that route.

john

hensonbass · #6 03-05-2009, 08:04 AM

I LOVE mine.

I've been using an M13 for effects on an Azola EUB that I tour with about 175 dates a year. It's very transparent sounding and it doesn't mangle up your tone. I don't even run it in true-bypass mode because I feel I didn't need to. As an upright player that's pretty unusual to find. It doesn't take much to dull down a delicate upright tone and I don't think the M13 does so.

Not every individual effect will be a winner but within each basic effect category you will find the desired sound you need. Just spend some time tweaking and you'll be happy. Plus the signal routing options and the built in looper make it even more fun. I personally love the plate reverbs, the analog and dimention chorus, phaser, and all the various delays you can mess with. Filters are ok and I did figure out how to get a good octaver setting with a synth patch. Some of the distortions and fuzzes are really on the money in terms of bass response and eq options.

I've tried as a comparison the Boss GT10B, Zoom Bt9u and I've also gone down the boutique pedal board path. The other multi-effect boxes had all some form of tone suck/mangle. The boutique pedalboard route would sound good IF EVERYTHING WAS WORKING. When you are on tour trying to figure out what cable was shorting out or fighting ground loop hums you really start realize why so many guys don't mess with effects live.

I've had the M13 on tour for eight months and it has performed flawlessly with no special treatment whatsoever.

JohnDavisNYC · #7 03-05-2009, 08:09 AM

cool, thanks for the positive road feedback, that is important. mine will be following a long chain of boutique pedals, so i still get all the fun of chasing bad cables and hum!

but, as an acoustic player, i totally hear you on the purity of sound, so it seems like they have the conversion and bypass pretty dialed in, which is important.

i don't suppose you have a digital multimeter handy and want to tell me how much voltage is coming out of the expression jack?

haha...

thanks,
john

JohnDavisNYC · #8 03-05-2009, 08:26 AM

my good friend Google just informed me that yes, it will work, given the right voltage settings!

sweet times!

john

kevteop · #9 03-05-2009, 08:36 AM

Are you not concerned about the disapproving looks you're going to get from the boutique snobs?

Maybe you could cover up the Line 6 logo with a Keeley sticker or something, and tell everybody the whole box has been modded beyond recognition.

JohnDavisNYC · #10 03-05-2009, 08:41 AM

haha...

good point. it's hard to see those disapproving looks from onstage, though, the lights are too bright!

we'll see... i need a good vibrato, delay, and some reverb, and a line6 looper (for the one shot mode) and the M13 is the easiest way i can think of to get all those things, and in a format i can control with the mp201... oh yeah, and i'll finally have a tuner!

it also, unfortunately, means i will have to start carrying way too much crap to every gig... maybe a second pedal train just for my digital stuff will be needed for touring... boo.

john

Jared Lash · #11 03-05-2009, 09:12 AM

I've played around with it in the store (admittedly a poor environment for judging a piece of gear with so much going on) and nearly pulled the trigger on it twice.

I started looking at it because I was considering a DL4 and a Verbzilla and for less than $150 more I could buy the M13 which has a ton more features and seems to have none of the tone suck or durability issues that the DL4 does.

Ultimately it wasn't for me because (1) it was just too big (2) I had no use for the distortions, and while the filters were fun and the modulations were pretty good, I had individual boxes I liked more.

Still, I think for your purposes it will work well and with all the parameters you can tweak, expression control and preset options, I think it will suit your need for a "modulation board" to pair with your "synth board".

JohnDavisNYC · #12 03-05-2009, 09:18 AM

Cool, thanks BigO... that is what I was thinking... I will probably buy one soon and see how it works out.

john

Mr. Pickles · #13 03-05-2009, 09:26 AM

I went over to the Line 6 site, but noticed you had already posted your question there. I read the shortboard manual, thinking that it might reveal something of how the expression is implemented, but it isn't compatible with the M13. There was no information available about their single exp. pedal, which is compatible...

JohnDavisNYC · #14 03-05-2009, 09:29 AM

i searched on the Moog forums, and some guys there got it to work by scaling the voltages accordingly... i guess the M13 puts out like 3.6volts or something, and the pedal attenuates that... so i just have to set my heel and toe voltages with the Moog to be 0-3v or something like that.

john

jblock · #15 03-05-2009, 09:35 AM

I just got one last week and love it so far. Very wide range of sounds and effects are capable with this box. It sounds like a true bypass to me. It's built like a tank but the LCDs are a bit inconsistent between each other; if you set them with the same effects type the color are not quite the same. There's a way to adjust them but they are still a little off. Mine also has a small piece of plastic or something under one of the LCDs. It's in the corner so doesn't obscure the text but I'm still trying to decide whether to exchange it or not.

Some of the sounds (like some of the filter options) aren't very usable for bass but there's enough in there to make some good noise. Here's a couple of tracks I did with just a bass and M13 for sounds (the delay unit was just for looping). These are both ambient pieces but you can get a good idea of the wide range of sounds you can get from the M13:

http://www.synthblock.com/blockscapes.html

rasthedoctor · #16 03-05-2009, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnDavisNYC

my good friend Google just informed me that yes, it will work, given the right voltage settings!

sweet times!

john

You're friends with Google too!?

If you do end up snagging one, it'd be great to hear a rundown on the sounds you achieve with it... I've debated between an M13 and an X3 Live to the point of inaction and it's killing me...

And jblock - those clips are excellent; thanks for sharing!

rnilson · #17 03-05-2009, 11:09 AM

Can the rythmic effects of the M13 be midi tempo synced to a midi clock.

winston · #18 03-05-2009, 11:20 AM

Just curious, how are the switches on the M13? Everybody I know who has a DL4 ends up having footswitch issues with them.

jblock · #19 03-05-2009, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rnilson

Can the rythmic effects of the M13 be midi tempo synced to a midi clock.

I don't think so literally. I mean you can set the times on the M13 at note value. But the manuals say nothing about it being able to receive MIDI clock messages, only CC and program change. There's not a setting to sync either that I can tell.

jblock · #20 03-05-2009, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by winston

Just curious, how are the switches on the M13? Everybody I know who has a DL4 ends up having footswitch issues with them.

They're different. They are slightly domed and seem more sturdy. The DL4 is just traditional stompbox footswitches.