Flangers/Phasers

tomato_katsup · #1 09-22-2007, 12:12 AM

What's the difference between a flanger and a phaser, both in what it sounds like and how the effect is produced?

bongomania · #2 09-22-2007, 01:22 AM

You'll want to check out the FAQ and also visit the Effects section of Harmony Central for good basic descriptions of the effects. As to how they work:

A flanger is a duplicate of your instrument signal, sped up and slowed down, and played on top of your original signal.

A phaser is a complex type of filter.

They sound similar because both are typically controlled by an "LFO", a circuit that in this case sweeps up and down cyclically. So they both have a repeating swirly sweeping whoosh sound. But the particular tone they have is distinct, and is better heard than put into words.

tomato_katsup · #3 09-27-2007, 06:24 AM

I've read those articles before, but to be honest didn't understand the phaser one as well as any of the others there, but I've got the flanging one down pat

. I've got both a flanger and a phaser in my multieffectss pedal, so I know what they sound like, but I was wondering how people tell them apart, because to me, a phaser with distortion sounds very similar to a flanger. Or am I just easily confused?

JanusZarate · #4 09-27-2007, 09:31 AM

They can be easily mixed up on milder settings. But crank them both, and you'll know which is which.

However, for someone not familiar with what each one sounds like, it wouldn't be surprising if they were mixed up.

speak_onion · #5 09-27-2007, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bongomania

A flanger is a duplicate of your instrument signal, sped up and slowed down, and played on top of your original signal.

A phaser is a complex type of filter.

Well, wehen you duplicate the instrument signal, and speed it up and slow it down, you cause a complex type of filtering. Adding a slightly delayed copy of a signal to itself will cause some frequencies to the enhanced (constructive interference) and some to be canceled (destructive interference) based on the phase relationships. This is comb filtering. When you change the delay time using an LFO (speeding up and slowing down the copy of the signal) this causes the frequencies that are combed to change back and forth.

I understand what a Phaser does much less, but I believe it also involves comb filtering based on the name.

I think that theoretically, flangers and phasers do the same thing, but they are implimented differently. I read somwhere (probably somewhere on TB) that the frequencies "combed" by a flanger are uniformly spaced, while a phaser "combs" non-uniformly spaced frequencies, because the filtering is performed directly rather than by a modulated delay. That would explain why they sound similar, but not the same.

Does that seem reasonable?

Edit: I have a feeling I didn't help anyone by this post.

tomato_katsup · #6 09-28-2007, 05:49 AM

That helps a little, but I kinda wanted to know if anyone had a way of listening to a sample, and saying definitively that it was one or the other.

JanusZarate · #7 09-28-2007, 09:44 AM

Ah...

These are on guitar, but they'll give you a good idea of what to expect from each:

MXR M-117 Flanger
EHX Small Stone (Phaser)

You can hear the differences in response with these various samples. Flangers often have a "jet-plane swoosh" or "metallic chime" aspect to them, and when used with distortion, it's impossible to miss - you'll KNOW it's a flanger when heard with distortion, because of the pronounced "jet-plane swoosh."

Phasers tend to be more "shimmery" and harmonically rich, IME.

Here's a sample of a flanger I own - the EHX Stereo Electric Mistress. It'll give you an idea of flanger on bass. I should also note, though, that there's some chorus mixed in as well. You can definitely hear the "swoosh" here regardless.

I don't have any samples of a phaser on bass, unfortunately. I didn't record any when I had my EHX Nano Small Stone.

ishouldbeking · #8 09-28-2007, 05:26 PM

When I first was exploring effects I also confused the two. Going on that I bought an early 80's Ross Phaser (the orange one) and couldn't have been more disappointed.

Basically that phaser was too light to really accomplish anything I would have found useful. When used on guitar it seemed to make everything feel "funky", which was the opposite of the swirling gothic noise I had been hoping for. On bass the effect was barely noticeable. After that I went out and tried a small stone, which was better and more useable on bass, but still had more of a "funky" vibe than I like. The boss phaser didn't impress me very much.

At some point I decided to look into flangers, and realized the "jet plane swoosh" I had been after was really just the flanger sound all along. I won't pretend to be super knowledgable on them, as I know there are some flangers which sound great for old school classic rock guitar solos (like the Foxrox Thru Zero Flanger) and the thicker, more metallic sounding flangers that I like for use on bass. I wound up buying the newer Boss Flanger, and I like it quite a bit. It's not the most useful effect, but it can be pretty amazing when used right. These kinds of flangers respond very nicely to distortion as well, which really accentuates the effect.

Apparently a lot of people like phasers on bass, though, so i may be the odd bird here.

bigchiefbc · #9 09-28-2007, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Flangers often have a "jet-plane swoosh" or "metallic chime" aspect to them, and when used with distortion, it's impossible to miss - you'll KNOW it's a flanger when heard with distortion, because of the pronounced "jet-plane swoosh."

See, I actually disagree here. I tend to associate a phaser with sounding more jet-plane wooshy, and I think of a flanger as more swirling and warbly. I know that this is all subjective.

The two quickest examples I can give you are:

Flanger - the second guitar at the beginning of paranoid android (not the acoustic one, obviously)

Phaser - The bridge in creed's "one", which to me is the quintessential jet-woosh phaser sound

BmoreTele · #10 09-28-2007, 09:06 PM

Flanging is falling down a metal tube.

Phasing is floating through a spinning wheel.

I like phasers a lot more than I like flangers.

fishtx · #11 09-28-2007, 09:13 PM

It just depends...they are both very cool effects...in the right circumstances...

Mitchell Royce · #12 09-29-2007, 08:59 AM

OK, it's been a while since I've read up on these things but wasn't a flanger just a specific type of phasing? Hence the similar sound.

tomato_katsup · #13 09-29-2007, 09:16 PM

A flanger mixes your signal with a variably delayed version of the same signal, like a chorus pedal. A phaser uses an allpass filter. Both of them use phase interference to make the effect, but do it in different ways. So, a flanger is a kind of phasing, but not a kind of phaser-ing, if I'm making any sense at all...