FX Questions - Order, Limiter?

[dmq89]

I follow these boards a lot and think I have a pretty good grasp of FX and signal chains - but I'm kinda stumped here...

My pedal board is set up as follows:

Bass (active or passive - depends!) - EB VP Jr - Sansamp BDDI - Morley Dual Bass Wah - Digitech Bass Synth Wah - Boss LMB3 - Boss GEB7 - Boss CEB3 - Boss BF3 - Micro POG - Amp

Question# 1: Is this a good order to have them set up in? I followed the advice from this forum as well as the links provided in some of the threads, so I pretty much have the pedals in the order these suggest. But this sort of leads to:

Question# 2: Where does the Limiter/Enhancer go?

On advice from Bongomania (thanx! ), I dropped my compressor and got the LMB-3 - I wanted to limit the volume spikes I was getting from my Morley and BSW. While this seems to work well, the LMB-3 seems to over-compress my non affected signal (i.e., I get the "pop" of the compression) and I can't dial it out.

In addition, my signal overall seems somewhat muffled - but the highs from the bass are too high if I dial them in, and the lows make the signal too muddy. If I try to get more of my low-middy "fretless" tone (I do play a fretless as well, but mostly dial in the tone on the EQ), my tone becomes very "sterile". But I now know from Bongo that you shouldn't put an EQ after a limiter (thank you search function!!! ), so I should probably switch those.

Does this make ANY sense? I'm pretty happy with my sound; I just want to make a few tweaks to clean it up, and make sure I have the FX order correct (and limiter in the right place!).

Thanx!!!

[dmq89]

And any suggested setting for a gritty, finger style type tone using the LMB-3 in the signal chain would be welcome as well!

Yes, I know I can't get the tome from the limiter, but I want the pedal to limit the spikes and not "pop" when clean... I'll try anything at this point!

[bongomania]

The first thing I'd recommend is putting at least some of those effects in a bypass loop. Most of those pedals can contribute a little bit to loss of tone when bypassed, and cumulatively it can be a real drag. A bypass loop should help considerably with the muddy/muffled sound problem. You might also look at the cables you are using in the chain, cheap cables can sometimes contribute to muddy tone, and many of them in series again have a noticeable cumulative effect.

The LMB-3 should only make its little pop noise when your signal crosses the threshold, which means you have its threshold set too low. I don't remember whether it's thresh knob goes from low thresh --> high thresh, or "reverse" from minimal compression --> max compression, so experiment or check the instructions. But either way your goal is to have your signal only cross the threshold at the levels where you want the signal compressed. To limit peaks from the filters you want a high ratio setting.

Also re: EQ before or after limiter, either I said something in an unclear way, or you misunderstood me. In the case of both EQ and limiters there are valid reasons to choose either one in front of the other- it's up to you to determine which way will have the most positive impact on the functionality, and the least negative impact. It's a compromise either way. If you let me know where I said the bit about not putting EQ after a limiter, I can go back and try to clarify or correct it.

[dmq89]

Bongo,

Found it here: BOSS Bass Limiter Enhancer LMB-3

Post# 9, where it says:

"Putting an EQ after a circuit that cuts off the low end cannot actually put the low end back. All you're doing is boosting the low mids that actually passed through the CS3. If that sounds good to you, great, nothing wrong with that- but it's important to know what is actually happening."

I take it the LMB-3 is capable of this "tone suck" as well?

Also, do I have it in the right place in my chain, ie, before the filters?

EDIT: Thanx for the info on the Thresh knob - even after all of the compression stuff I've read, I still didn't understand what to set it at! I'll see if setting it higher (clockwise) makes a difference!

Thanx!!!

[bongomania]

Ah, you definitely misunderstood me. The LMB-3 does not lose any low end, and even if it did I would not extend my statement about "circuits that cut off the low end" to "all limiters". It's just like I said there: if you have a pedal that cuts off the low end, an EQ cannot put the low end back. That's it. It has nothing to do with limiters per se. "Tone suck" usually refers to a loss of highs or upper harmonics, which is more complicated as far as EQ is concerned, but the best solutions involve better quality bypass, better quality cables, and a carefully-placed buffer. Look for another post I made this morning in another thread explaining about buffers.

You put a limiter after whatever signal source needs limiting. If you want to restrain the signal peaks before the signal hits your filters, then put the limiter before the filters. If you want to restrain signal peaks caused by the filters, then put the limiter after the filters.

[dmq89]

Originally Posted by bongomania

Ah, you definitely misunderstood me. The LMB-3 does not lose any low end, and even if it did I would not extend my statement about "circuits that cut off the low end" to "all limiters". It's just like I said there: if you have a pedal that cuts off the low end, an EQ cannot put the low end back. That's it. It has nothing to do with limiters per se. "Tone suck" usually refers to a loss of highs or upper harmonics, which is more complicated as far as EQ is concerned, but the best solutions involve better quality bypass, better quality cables, and a carefully-placed buffer. Look for another post I made this morning in another thread explaining about buffers.

You put a limiter after whatever signal source needs limiting. If you want to restrain the signal peaks before the signal hits your filters, then put the limiter before the filters. If you want to restrain signal peaks caused by the filters, then put the limiter after the filters.

Thanx very much!!!

Your insight is always appreciated!!!