Gain stages

[lowendblues]

Im sure this has been asked before, but anyway,,,I have a GK 700RB-II with Avatar 210 and 212 NEO cabs. I dont bi-amp, so I'm just using the "woofer" amp in the GK blowing full range. I use pretty much the manuals suggestion of turning the "woofer" control up between 12 and 3 O'clock, then adjusting the "pre" or volume control for loudness, adding some "boost" for a little grit. OK?

That being said, I'm wanting to build a pedal board starting with the the Tech 21 VT pedal, not ruling out the Sansamp para-driver. and maybe a chorus, compressor ect.....

My question is, when getting into various pedals with "gain" controls of their own,, how should you set the gain of the pedals in relation to your amp settings, for best overal signal, without excessive hiss, or other problems.??? Is there some kind of "rule of thumb" advice? or is it just trial and error on the user's part?

[BELLATOR]

This is a good article from Aguilar:


SETTING UP THE SIGNAL CHAIN

Here are some general concerns when you start to hook up lots of stuff.

The more stuff you have in the signal path, the more noise you will get. All electronics generate noise, and it adds up.

Most effects and preamps have level adjustments. How you set the level adjustments is pretty important. As a general rule, you will get the best noise performance by keeping the levels as high as possible without clipping. To set this up, first turn all the levels on all your stuff to relatively low values so that you are not clipping anything. Then starting from the bass and working towards the amp, turn up the volume until you clip the next unit, and back off until it stops clipping. This is tricky, because you need to make sure that you are only clipping the next consecutive unit. So it can help to add units one at a time. For example, let's say you have FX1, FX2, and FX3, then the amp. Start with this set-up:

Bass->FX1->amp

Turn the amp input way down, then turn up your bass and the input to FX1 until FX1 clips, and then back off so that you don't get any clipping. Now add the next unit:

Bass->FX1->FX2->amp

Now you only adjust the output of FX1 and the input to FX2 until FX2 clips, and then back off.

Repeat the process for FX3 and the amp input. At this point, you have optimized your levels for minimum noise.

Usually this is how you want to set levels, but this is only a guideline. There are many different types of effects and signal processors, and many of them have different ways of setting levels, and many of them change depending on the level of the input (envelope followers, compressors). So you still need to use your ear. If you get a better sound with a different set-up, then use the better sound. You won't break anything.

[JanusZarate]

The general guideline (and summary of the Aguilar article above) is simply to start at your bass and work your way down to the amp controls, in order ("Volume" knob, "Boost" knob, "Woofer/Master" knob).

The idea is that each successive gain stage boosts the noise of the previous stage. If the previous stage is "too low", then the next stage will have to be cranked higher to make up for the lack of gain. But because that next stage also has a noise level of its own that gets worse as you turn it up, you're actually increasing the noise more than you would otherwise.

Minimizing noise means getting as much gain as possible from the earliest stages without compromising tone or introducing unwanted clipping. That way, the later gain stages don't need to be turned as high, and they'll contribute much less of their own noise to the final result.

Of course, once you start throwing overdrive, envelope filters, and other effects that are highly gain-sensitive, you'll realize that the above is indeed only a suggestion and not a hard-and-fast rule. But even there, it can help you adjust such pedals to minimize your noise without compromising the effects you're trying to get.

An easy way to hear this yourself: use just your bass and amp. Turn your Volume and Boost knobs on the GK head to 9:00 (which is low). Then crank up the Master volume to an overall volume of choice. Listen to the noise. Now, turn the Volume and Boost knobs to 12:00, and turn up the Master again until you get the same overall volume of choice (it'll be a lower setting than before). What do you notice about the noise? Now try lowering the volume on your bass, and try to make up for the decreased volume by turning up your master. You can see where I'm going with this...

[RickenBoogie]

It is totally realistic to have several gain stages in your chain, and still have great tone and low noise in the end. The above guidelines are a good start, but it's still trial and error until it's all worked out. Sometimes, it may be necessary to change certain pedals out for other, (usually more expensive), less troublesome pedals. As an example, I have 3 "gain type" pedals on my board, compression, eq, and od, as well as several "gain sensitive" pedals like filters or auto-wahs, and virtually no noise. It took alot of expirimenting to get things settled in to my satisfaction, but it's all good now. I have removed my noise reduction pedal from my board, which was a happy day. Good luck with yours.