Germanium?

[CliftonBonney]

I'm clueless on this germanium stuff. What is it an alternative to - silicon?

What is exactly does Germanium do for you, say in the B:Assmaster? What is the difference between Germanium and its alternative? Thanks.

[JanusZarate]

Actually, the description Malekko provides on their website sums it up rather decently: Smoother and more "vintage" sounding. Silicon transistors are often thought to be harsher and more "modern" sounding in comparison.

That's why pedals like the EHX Germanium OD, Malekko B:Assmaster, and others with germanium transistors tend to be advertised as "vintage" sounding. That, and many vintage pedals used germanium transistors... hence, the association of germanium with vintage.

[bongomania]

Yes, it's germanium vs. silicon. In transistors, which are used in amplification circuits, germaniums can (in the right design) sound different from silicon. The broad, sweeping generalization would be that germ sounds smoother and furrier and fatter, while silicon sound sharper and grittier and more "clear" if that makes any sense. Again generalizing, but germ is more "vintage" while silicon is more "modern".

Now all of that is super subjective, and it is also completely dependent on the specific circuit design. There are amp/pedal designs where you could not tell the transistors apart. There are also amp/pedal designs that do not take fullest advantage of the best qualities of each type of transistor, resulting in too much noise or too much harshness or other unwanted qualities. Because of that, you may hear people say "I don't like XYZ because it's too sterile" or something like that- and they're right about what they're hearing in the one case at hand, but it really doesn't apply to all other cases of XYZ components.

[JanusZarate]

...and as usual, bongomania upstages me with a wealth of useful knowledge and noteworthy caveats.

[metalmariachi]

Originally Posted by bongomania

Yes, it's germanium vs. silicon. In transistors, which are used in amplification circuits, germaniums can (in the right design) sound different from silicon. The broad, sweeping generalization would be that germ sounds smoother and furrier and fatter, while silicon sound sharper and grittier and more "clear" if that makes any sense. Again generalizing, but germ is more "vintage" while silicon is more "modern".

Now all of that is super subjective, and it is also completely dependent on the specific circuit design. There are amp/pedal designs where you could not tell the transistors apart. There are also amp/pedal designs that do not take fullest advantage of the best qualities of each type of transistor, resulting in too much noise or too much harshness or other unwanted qualities. Because of that, you may hear people say "I don't like XYZ because it's too sterile" or something like that- and they're right about what they're hearing in the one case at hand, but it really doesn't apply to all other cases of XYZ components.

True dat.

Germainiums were the first transistors availible, so those 'clasic' pedals used them, many got updated to the newer sylicons later (Fuzz Face for example).

Just swapping from one to the other won't always improve or degrade the sound.

mm

[Bob the bassist]

Bah. Just an extension of the whole 'tube vs. transistor' crap. IMHO, with all the other variables in one's signal chain, and the fact that everything is mixed and processed to some extent (FOH PA/Studio Processors), the whole abstract 'tone' thing is a crock; A marketing ploy: "Let's use obsolete components and charge an arm and a leg for them."

[Pilgrim]

Bob injects an interesting perspective that I share:

The sound you generate from an electric instrument is the net result of a lot of different variables: pickups, strings, wood, bridge, playing technique, cable, pedals, amp head, speaker cab.

Changing any ONE of these components - or one electronic component like a transistor within one of these components - is altering just one variable among many. It may be audible, or it may not. Depends to a great degree on the other variables in the signal chain.

Some of these components do have significant audible effects: it's tough to argue that changing strings or pickups doesn't have a big, immediate effect on your sound. But the audible effect of most of these somewhat debatable (witness many threads on Talkbass discussing woods, cables, amps, etc.) and can be offset to a greater or lesser degree by adjustments to the other components.

[bassman251]

Originally Posted by Bob the bassist

Bah. Just an extension of the whole 'tube vs. transistor' crap. IMHO, with all the other variables in one's signal chain, and the fact that everything is mixed and processed to some extent (FOH PA/Studio Processors), the whole abstract 'tone' thing is a crock; A marketing ploy: "Let's use obsolete components and charge an arm and a leg for them."

While I agree germanium may not make a great difference in some circuits, I have used them in certain circuits that it made it sound phenomenal.

[RickenBoogie]

Originally Posted by Bob the bassist

Bah. Just an extension of the whole 'tube vs. transistor' crap. IMHO, with all the other variables in one's signal chain, and the fact that everything is mixed and processed to some extent (FOH PA/Studio Processors), the whole abstract 'tone' thing is a crock; A marketing ploy: "Let's use obsolete components and charge an arm and a leg for them."

While I wholeheartedly agree with this sentiment, I also spent 2 1/2 years and tons of money, chasing what I consider to be the perfect tone. Lots of small, insignificant peices and parts, amps, pedals, the works, and while I'm 99% satisfied, I continue in small ways, chasing that tone. In the end, no one who listens to me play gives half a rat's ass about that tone. Sort of puts it all in perspective, I think.

[kevteop]

I'm guessing modern Muffs have silicon transistors in them, given how cheap they are. And that's about as vintage-sounding as a fuzz can get IMHO. I think the circuit design is more important than the type of transistor used, although obviously a lot of people disagree (M.I. Audio being one notable example).

[bongomania]

But see, the point there is M.I. Audio makes both kinds, and leaves it up to the consumer to decide if there's a difference. Same with Malekko and a handful of others. It's not a question of disagreeing, it's that the market fully supports the idea and the continued production of both kinds of transistor fuzz.

Also in the realm of recording, subtle tone qualities can make a big difference. That which can't be heard onstage can often be heard in recording.

[CliftonBonney]

Originally Posted by bongomania

But see, the point there is M.I. Audio makes both kinds, and leaves it up to the consumer to decide if there's a difference. Same with Malekko and a handful of others. It's not a question of disagreeing, it's that the market fully supports the idea and the continued production of both kinds of transistor fuzz.

Also in the realm of recording, subtle tone qualities can make a big difference. That which can't be heard onstage can often be heard in recording.

Thanks to everyone for the response. So, when it comes to the B:Assmaster, which one does everyone prefer? The germanium one or the silicon one?

[vegas532]

Originally Posted by CliftonBonney

Thanks to everyone for the response. So, when it comes to the B:Assmaster, which one does everyone prefer? The germanium one or the silicon one?

You'll hate this reply, but I like them both depending on what I'm going for at the time. If I'm aiming for the old school dirt, Germ all the way. For over the top industrial lunacy (NIN, Ministry), it's gotta be the Silicon. The thing I can honestly say is that the differences in sound between the two are night and day.

[KarateKid25]

Germanium and silicon pedals do sound different to each other. Whether one is better or 'worth more' is up to the individual. Usually they cost more for a germ product as the transistor itself is not available anymore and may have cost $10 say for it alone.

As I said though, the pedals will sound different. The materials used are different, the properties of the parts are different. Germanium can be quite inconsistent. Hell, 2x the same germ pedals can sound quite different to each other, let alone germ vs silicon. Germanium can be easily heat affected for a start.

As stated before, in general, germ gives a warmer more vintage sound. Sometimes can be a bit lofi. Silicon gives a harsher sound with more attack (maybe gain) and is much more consistent. Which anyone prefers is subjective and depends on what their looking for. Personally I normally prefer silicon as in silicon Tonebenders vs Germ ones, but in the case of an assmaster, I went Germanium to add a new palette to my fuzz sound.

[bongomania]

Another factor in the cost of germ xtrs is that the vast majority of them available for purchase anywhere are too leaky to use. They are so far out of their proper operating range that they have gone way past "quirky" or "mojo-filled" and all the way to flat out garbage. Because of that, builders typically have to buy hundreds of germ xtrs just to find a few that actually work well enough.

[pulse]

I use Germanium Diodes for clipping in my distortion pedal on my bass, running into my all valve SVTII it sounds really nice & powerful
It has a old school, maybe 70's character but in no way is it missing anything.

[roflol]

from my experience with building pedals germanium transistors have alot better sustain clarity and punch and react alot better to the dynamics of your playing so work out alot better for me ;>

[CliftonBonney]

Originally Posted by KarateKid25

Germanium and silicon pedals do sound different to each other. Whether one is better or 'worth more' is up to the individual. Usually they cost more for a germ product as the transistor itself is not available anymore and may have cost $10 say for it alone.

As I said though, the pedals will sound different. The materials used are different, the properties of the parts are different. Germanium can be quite inconsistent. Hell, 2x the same germ pedals can sound quite different to each other, let alone germ vs silicon. Germanium can be easily heat affected for a start.

As stated before, in general, germ gives a warmer more vintage sound. Sometimes can be a bit lofi. Silicon gives a harsher sound with more attack (maybe gain) and is much more consistent. Which anyone prefers is subjective and depends on what their looking for. Personally I normally prefer silicon as in silicon Tonebenders vs Germ ones, but in the case of an assmaster, I went Germanium to add a new palette to my fuzz sound.

Thanks. Which one would be the least like my Woolly Mammoth? The Germ? Silicon? I want to be able to get some kind of a different sound.

The Mammoth is pretty versatile. It seems like I can get the very modern sound as well as the vintage sound. Maybe this is a sign that I don't need the B:Assmaster, but I sure do want one.

What do you guys think?

[pulse]

Originally Posted by roflol

from my experience with building pedals germanium transistors have alot better sustain clarity and punch and react alot better to the dynamics of your playing so work out alot better for me ;>

thats what I meant to say but could not figure out how to say

except for the part about building pedals

I dont build pedals

I have a friend that does