Geting my bass sound/tone right

[kurotenshi]

Hi guys

So i've been reading a lot of posts but all the info combined did not help me yet so i'll just put my specific problem to you.

I play in a metal band with 2 guitars (we play drop D) and I can't seem to find a tone that sounds good. THE bass sound for me is Peter Iwers (In Flames) on the album Come Clarity, some other references are The Haunted, Dark Tranquillity, Deadlock and The Agonist. Im not looking to copy no one, those bands are just to help explain what I want.

So the sound i'm looking for has:
1- A very deep distorted bottom end that sounds a bit like the speaker cones are ripped.
2- Lots of attack so that is easy to tell the difference between stroking a note or just letting it ring and so that I can generate "impact" while hitting a note along with a "drum hit"
3- Note definition so that the (few) progressions and higher notes I do are noticeable.

Usually what I get is a deep but undistorted and undefined sound, a not so deep but still low distorted but REALLY undefined sound or a very defined sound with lots of attack but kind of thin sound. The best results yet were with the Behringer BDI21 (sansamp BDDI clone).

My current gear is Behringer BEQ700 (7band graph EQ), Behringer DC-9 (compressor), Behringer BDI21 and LTD AX-104 (basswood body, maple neck, active electronics). The amp in the studio is a Warwick profet IV (I think) with Warwick 4x10.

Suggest boost/cut freq, string brand/gauge, playing technique (I use fingers cause pick cuts my bootom end), settings on the FX/bass/amp, what ever you throw at me it'll help.

P.S. - I'm saving for a pair of 35DC pickups, do you think it'll help?

[VinKreepo]

You either need to turn up the gain on the amp and volume on the bass while turning down the master on the amp OR get a bass distortion/overdrive pedal. My behringer 3000 has a second channel for distortion, does your amp have that?

EDIT: turn the level knob on your behringer pedal all the way up, then turn the treble all the way up, the bass a little way up, presence halfway, and then after all that turn the drive knob up to taste, then adjust amp volume.

[cheapbasslovin]

I would try boosting the 120HZ and 800HZ on the EQ into the BDI and then add presence just until the low end starts to drops out. I don't know if that would work, but that is where I would start.

You may need a gear transplant before long. You sound to me like a fuzz waiting to be purchased. I'm not enough of a fuzz junkie to ask.

[kurotenshi]

Thanks for the answers, just the kind I wanted.

@vinkreepo: I forgot to say that I'd like to keep the amp out of the equation since I intend to use the BDI21 as a DI and not use any amp when we go live. Your edit is the way I'd like to do things

@cheapbasslovin: That's maybe the case, I have to admit I love the Muse bass lol but as far as I know the sound I mentioned from In Flames was done with split signal, one side into an SVT, the other into an MXR Dime Distortion and then into an Ashdown ABM. Live he uses MXR Bass DI+ with SVT's in the US and EBS Fafner in europe.

I'll post the results after I try

[dannybuoy]

I'd try a blended fuzz - a Bass Big Muff or Pickle Pie B for instance, or a standard blender with another distortion/fuzz attached. It's the only way to get a super heavy distortion with the deep lows, clarity and attack of your clean sound!

[billphreets]

Originally Posted by dannybuoy

I'd try a blended fuzz - a Bass Big Muff or Pickle Pie B for instance, or a standard blender with another distortion/fuzz attached. It's the only way to get a super heavy distortion with the deep lows, clarity and attack of your clean sound!

+1

just to add that an xotic BB bass preamp into a Bass Big Muff sounds pretty thunderous (as Dannybuoy will confirm )

[kurotenshi]

Ok, let me see if I get it: You'r saying that the key point is the blend (everything ok there, the BDI21 has a blend) and the best way to distort the sound is with fuzz instead of distortion (of course i'll have to try both options to see what I like the most).

About the xotic, if I go with the 35DC's i'll also change my internal preamp so I'll have active PU's with active electronics driven by 18V so I gess that will do the same as the xotic no?

[kurotenshi]

So I'm out of 9V batteries lol and my power supply will arrive in the next days so i'm not spending money on batteries. Anyway, used Guitar Rig to test what you were suggesting.
The frequencies that cheapbasslovin gave had little to no impact on the sound, using a low Q parametric EQ I found that boosting around 40Hz makes wonders for my lows. As far as distortion goes, still find that in order to get the distortion I want, the highs get to fuzzy and undefined. Maybe tomorrow i'll try using the BDI21 alone ad see where it leaves me. Thanks anyways guys

[VinKreepo]

You want distored lows and clear highs with the speaker cone ripped sound... that's why the TBer's are suggesting fuzz

[ourworldisgrey]

Boosting 40Hz through an amp will likely equal blown speakers and a lot of lost headroom. Most bass speakers don't go that low, and it robs your power amp of headroom because freqs. that low need a lot of wattage to achieve.

[Ric5]

If I remember correctly that Behringer pedal has no mid control. Preamps and pedals need a mid control otherwise they are 2 dimensional.

Also I am a big fan of splitting the signal and running a clean and dirty pedal in parallel and then recombining the signal. Then you can get a tone that cuts through the mix.

[aledeville]

IMHO is heavy distorted sound always less precise and attacking than a fat clean signal.

[jcburn]

I used to split my signal between two amp setups - one clean, one distorted, but this became expensive and was a lot of gear to lug around and was also hard to EQ for different sounding rooms.
Having said this what I do these days that for me produces nearly the same effect but at a fraction of the cost is run my bass into a Dunlop MXR M80 bass drive DI pedal. The pedal is 3 in 1 - a DI to run to FOH(if needed or necessary), a basic (but very musical) active preamp with bass,mids and treble(and "colour" button that is a preset EQ curve specific to bass) and also a drive/distortion circuit that is blendable with the clean signal. I then run this into my amp set up that again is very basic - a Hartke LH500 head, Hartke 1x15 and Hartke 4x10(again a simple/inexpensive but incredible sounding rig for the $). I run my amp fairly flat, using the EQ and the drive circuit on the pedal to achieve my tone. Sounds great. Now I dont use a very distorted sound - if you want what I have this set at have a listen to the first 30 seconds or so of There Is No God by Extreme.
What my point is this pedal lets you blend the distortion AND the EQ section so you can get a fairly decently distorted tone then EQ the bottom end in that you need. The mid adjustment is a nice touch too. It even has some suggested settings for a Rex Brown tone (one of my fav bassists), Rob Trujillo etc.
Hows that for 2c worth. And I have tried straight distortion/overdrive pedals before and never liked how the bass was always sucked out. My amp could never compensate.

[tiresmokindad]

Originally Posted by kurotenshi

Hi guys

So i've been reading a lot of posts but all the info combined did not help me yet so i'll just put my specific problem to you.

I play in a metal band with 2 guitars (we play drop D) and I can't seem to find a tone that sounds good. THE bass sound for me is Peter Iwers (In Flames) on the album Come Clarity, some other references are The Haunted, Dark Tranquillity, Deadlock and The Agonist. Im not looking to copy no one, those bands are just to help explain what I want.

So the sound i'm looking for has:
1- A very deep distorted bottom end that sounds a bit like the speaker cones are ripped.
2- Lots of attack so that is easy to tell the difference between stroking a note or just letting it ring and so that I can generate "impact" while hitting a note along with a "drum hit"
3- Note definition so that the (few) progressions and higher notes I do are noticeable.

Usually what I get is a deep but undistorted and undefined sound, a not so deep but still low distorted but REALLY undefined sound or a very defined sound with lots of attack but kind of thin sound. The best results yet were with the Behringer BDI21 (sansamp BDDI clone).

My current gear is Behringer BEQ700 (7band graph EQ), Behringer DC-9 (compressor), Behringer BDI21 and LTD AX-104 (basswood body, maple neck, active electronics). The amp in the studio is a Warwick profet IV (I think) with Warwick 4x10.

Suggest boost/cut freq, string brand/gauge, playing technique (I use fingers cause pick cuts my bootom end), settings on the FX/bass/amp, what ever you throw at me it'll help.

P.S. - I'm saving for a pair of 35DC pickups, do you think it'll help?

Yes I think you should save that for a backup use. What genre do you play?

[kurotenshi]

Well kind of hard to tell the style but generally speaking is metal with some hardcore touches but its not metalcore.
What makes me really confused is you listen to something like Come Clarity and there is lots of low end (I think) but in studio it sounds like there is NO low end. But that might be due to the quality of the recording.

[wetzelman1]

for most of those types of bands, Killswitch, In Flames, Unearth, Shadows Fall etc., it's typically a sansamp setup to get all the tone. For studio use, a good compressor, and possibly mixing a wet and dry signal should help.

In my band I was having trouble cutting through, I was able to pick up an aphex bass xciter cheap and that really helped me stand out.

No one has mentioned yet that you're using a behringer eq and compressor. Behringer equipment does have it's place, but those 2 specific pedals are notorious for severe tonesuck and I'd assume they're probably hurting your tone more than helping.

As a last note, my band had just 1 guitar (multiple recorded tracks though) so I had more space to fill as the bassist. I originally played fingers in the band, but I had a huge blister one day, practiced our set with a pick, and I've been using a pick ever since. For any kind of technical metal, a pick is going to give you much better clarity, accuracy and attack than fingers will. If a pick is cutting your bottom end, than boost it back at your amp/preamp/eq.

[OilcanRacer]

Originally Posted by VinKreepo

You want distored lows and clear highs with the speaker cone ripped sound... that's why the TBer's are suggesting fuzz

if you do this all you will hear is the highs as a distorted bass gets lost in the mix.

you want the other way around. clear strong loud sub bass and distorted uppers. that way you have punch and dirt.

split your signal(explained in a million post already) for highs and lows. the subs get bottom end eq and compression for fatness and the rest get your choice of fuzz/distortion.

[kurotenshi]

Originally Posted by OilcanRacer

if you do this all you will hear is the highs as a distorted bass gets lost in the mix.

you want the other way around. clear strong loud sub bass and distorted uppers. that way you have punch and dirt.

split your signal(explained in a million post already) for highs and lows. the subs get bottom end eq and compression for fatness and the rest get your choice of fuzz/distortion.

That sounds right in theory but, from what I hear in the rehearsal room, the clean lows don't have that ripped cone effect or is that due to another factor other than being clean? Come to think about it, lots of electronic music have the kind of low I want, could it be that all I need is a louder low end to get this?

[kurotenshi]

Hi.

Your tips were perfect, today on the rehearsal I connected the BDI21 to the fx loop of the amp and used the compressor and EQ section on the amp and the settings by VinKreepo with blend at 50%...ok and today we decided to play in Drop C wish makes all the difference. Ended up not messing with the graph EQ only using the bass and mid boost and turning the tone knob to the bass side. The sound was perfect.
Now I just have to reproduce the amp's EQ on the BEQ700 and I can leave the amp out of the equation.
Again Thank you SO much.