getting the most out of a delay with a volume pedal

[sonic assassin]

i want to be able to do swells into delay as well as control the volume of my delays. i figure this is best achieved with a cheap volume pedal and some sort of effects loop.

trouble is keeping my old analog delay at some sort of unity here.

if A is straight signal and B is delay, then im fine until i want to control the signal going to delay without cutting something off. would going to A+B cause problems here?

im a little scatterbrained over the issue and dont want to just cop out and get a 250 dollar DL4 and the external controller.

any ideas?

[niftydog]

If you're thinking what I'm thinking, then going A+B will connect the delay's input to it's output and may result in feedback.

But it's a bit unclear as to exactly what it is that you mean. Can you draw a diagram or explain it more clearly?

[SnakeAnthony]

Bass> Volume> Delay> Volume.

Get two EBMMs and put them side by side. Swell into the delay, control the volume of the delays, or both at once.

[takfar]

or you can use a slow gear clone to do the swells, into delay, into a volume pedal to control volume

[JMDT]

Originally Posted by takfar

or you can use a slow gear clone to do the swells, into delay, into a volume pedal to control volume

Which slow gear clone works best with bass? I've tinkered with buying the Behringer just for jollies, but yeah.

[Bassenstien]

I tried this just the other day and it worked pretty good. I didnt tinker with it for to long though.

http://www.guyatone.com/Sv2.php

[takfar]

Originally Posted by JMDT

Which slow gear clone works best with bass? I've tinkered with buying the Behringer just for jollies, but yeah.

I did buy the Behringer just to test it. I'd say it does work with bass, but it's sometimes a tad difficult to control; the swelling is a bit more consistent with a guitar (that is, it's easier to control when you want it to swell and when you want it to just play regular notes at full volume), but this might have something to do with the hot active EMGs on my bass.

Overall, you absolutely CAN get some really nice sounds by combining it with a delay pedal (in fact, I was close to pulling it out of my board due to not finding much use for the swells, but after testing it with delay I think it's staying for good).

Either way, it's pretty cheap, and if you don't like it, you didn't lose much anyway, so I'd say go and try it.

As for the guyatone... It's purple, FFS . If I ever wanted to replace the Behringer SM200, I'd get a BYOC Lazy Sprocket (if only because it's in a metal housing, instead of the Behringer's plastic. I've also read some are modded for longer swells..)

[JMDT]

Originally Posted by takfar

I did buy the Behringer just to test it. I'd say it does work with bass, but it's sometimes a tad difficult to control; the swelling is a bit more consistent with a guitar (that is, it's easier to control when you want it to swell and when you want it to just play regular notes at full volume), but this might have something to do with the hot active EMGs on my bass.

Overall, you absolutely CAN get some really nice sounds by combining it with a delay pedal (in fact, I was close to pulling it out of my board due to not finding much use for the swells, but after testing it with delay I think it's staying for good).

Either way, it's pretty cheap, and if you don't like it, you didn't lose much anyway, so I'd say go and try it.

As for the guyatone... It's purple, FFS . If I ever wanted to replace the Behringer SM200, I'd get a BYOC Lazy Sprocket (if only because it's in a metal housing, instead of the Behringer's plastic. I've also read some are modded for longer swells..)

Sounds like I should try the Behringer. If I get the Behringer and like it, I would probably have my friend stick the guts in an MXR enclosure and add a true bypass switch. I was going to pick one up the other day, but the shop was sold out. Should be in next week.

[takfar]

Originally Posted by JMDT

Sounds like I should try the Behringer. If I get the Behringer and like it, I would probably have my friend stick the guts in an MXR enclosure and add a true bypass switch. I was going to pick one up the other day, but the shop was sold out. Should be in next week.

I'm using the Behringer Slow Motion plus delay in the latter third of this video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gopdjYa39A

[SnakeAnthony]

I thought the Behringer model was okay. Given the fact that they are essentially free on the used market (got one for $10, fully functioning), it really isn't a bad way to go. But don't forget: It's still a Behringer. The swells were hard to control a lot of the time, and were fairly inconsistent. I would probably go the way of the BYOC if I was more into the effect. That or look for an original Boss model.

[takfar]

Originally Posted by SnakeAnthony

I thought the Behringer model was okay. Given the fact that they are essentially free on the used market (got one for $10, fully functioning), it really isn't a bad way to go. But don't forget: It's still a Behringer. The swells were hard to control a lot of the time, and were fairly inconsistent. I would probably go the way of the BYOC if I was more into the effect. That or look for an original Boss model.

Do you have experience with the BYOC or the Slow Gear, tho? Are they *really* an improvement over the Behringer, control- and sound-wise, or are we just assuming this? As far as bypass goes, btw, the Behringer's pretty good. The whole pedal has a flimsy look/feel, tho; haven't had any problem, durability-wise, but the impression it might break if you stomp with a little too much force is hard to shake.

[SnakeAnthony]

Originally Posted by takfar

Do you have experience with the BYOC or the Slow Gear, tho? Are they *really* an improvement over the Behringer, control- and sound-wise, or are we just assuming this? As far as bypass goes, btw, the Behringer's pretty good. The whole pedal has a flimsy look/feel, tho; haven't had any problem, durability-wise, but the impression it might break if you stomp with a little too much force is hard to shake.

Not the BYOC, but yes, the Boss really is an improvement. Much more consistent swells, actually reactive to knob changes, and it handled the attack of the bass better.

[takfar]

Originally Posted by SnakeAnthony

Not the BYOC, but yes, the Boss really is an improvement. Much more consistent swells, actually reactive to knob changes, and it handled the attack of the bass better.

Cool. I might have to pick one of those (the BYOC.. I don't expect the slow gear to be found cheap just around the corner) up sometime. I'm going to keep experimenting with cheapy Behringer, and if I find it's being used a lot with the band, I'll go after the BYOC. Little Behry has been its job well enough so far, tho.

[sonic assassin]

id have to be in control of my swells, so a SG clone is out.

the 2 volume idea works, but thats more stuff i have to buy haha.

here's what i had in mind.


my idea was that if A is straight signal, and B is delay (for delay AND the swells), then A+B will make me able to control the signal going to the delay.

trouble there is that ive got extra clean signal, and id have to set my delay to 100% wet for this, and then have to adjust knobs between songs to change the mode back and forth.

i could also keep my delay oscillating and play over it, with the volume pedal not letting any more signal get to it.

[niftydog]

But that won't do as you originally asked ie; to also be able to control the volume of the delays.

And, even with a volume pedal in line there, you're still (with a passive AB box) just connecting output to input which usually results in (sometimes-cool-sounding) feedback.

To get away with one volume pedal you virtually need a box that will switch it's position in the signal chain before or after the delay pedal. This will require more than a conventional AB box.

[sonic assassin]

well if i control the signal TO the delay, then i can feed it less and make it quieter. i dont need to control each repeat, just the signal going into it. "do i want a little subtle delay or a bunch of loud repeats" mentality.

trying to avoid buying a DL4 that i dont need for this function. i have my eyes on the echo park, but the option isnt there. so im trying to get those functions with my current, or all future delays.

putting a delay in an A+B makes a feedback loop?

[SnakeAnthony]

Originally Posted by niftydog

But that won't do as you originally asked ie; to also be able to control the volume of the delays.

And, even with a volume pedal in line there, you're still (with a passive AB box) just connecting output to input which usually results in (sometimes-cool-sounding) feedback.

To get away with one volume pedal you virtually need a box that will switch it's position in the signal chain before or after the delay pedal. This will require more than a conventional AB box.

+1. It would take up less space (slightly less), but you'd still have to buy another piece of gear to get this done, not to mention the fact that a job like this would probably have to be custom, so the price and wait might be factors.

[raymondl3]

You are on the right track but your diagram does not depict an ABY pedal. It looks more like an FX loop pedal similar to one made by Xotic or Radial.

[sonic assassin]

Originally Posted by raymondl3

You are on the right track but your diagram does not depict an ABY pedal. It looks more like an FX loop pedal similar to one made by Xotic or Radial.

its not an ABY. it is an A/B with A+B option.

im not looking to switch between 2 signals, im trying to mix in my delay and have more control over it with a single volume pedal.

[raymondl3]

That's what an ABY pedal is. Regardless of what we choose to call it, you need a parallel FX loop either in stompbox form or from your amp's fx loop (most are not parallel) if you want to swell in a delay with a dry signal. Check out Loopmaster, Radial, or Xotic.