Getting the right low-end distortion

[Traver]

I bought a distortion pedal fairly recently, and I love playing with distortion on, but that's not the point of this thread.
It's pretty easy to get a good a good distortion on the high-end (I play a sixer), basically any setting sounds pretty good there, but I'm having trouble with getting a good distortion setup for the low-end.
The low-end usually ends up with a sort of "farting" sound. The notes end sort of abrupt, and it gives a pretty unpleasant sound. When I listen to bassists like Marco Hietala from Tarot/Nightwish and the bassist from Muse, they manage to get a really crunchy low-end, without the nuisances I'm experiencing.

The pedal I'm using is an Ashdown Drive Plus pedal. It's got 5 knobs to tune:
Input
HF (high frequency, I assume) drive
Balance
LF (low frequenct, I assume) drive
Output

When I play with distortion, I usually turn my bass up to the max, as you need quite a bit of volume to get a good distortion.

Anyone has any clue as to what I'm doing wrong or how to set up the pedal to get a good low-end?

[Johnny Crab]

Originally Posted by Traver

When I listen to bassists like Marco Hietala from Tarot/Nightwish and the bassist from Muse, they manage to get a really crunchy low-end, without the nuisances I'm experiencing.

He DOES get an amazing sound that even comes across on youtube live stuff.

Apologies for no experience with your pedal
A Fulltone Bass Drive pedal can get close. A Line 6 BassPODXTLive gets much closer.

The closest I've EVER heard to that sound(say like the bass part in Phantom of the Opera when Tarja, bass, and drums only play) was hearing Amy with Clatter at a club in Houston which duplicated her sound recorded. She used the SWR Henry and a Mesa guitar amp:


Apologies for the detour and not knowing your pedal.

[speak_onion]

I don't know the bands/players that you listed, but I do know that pedal. Have you tried turning the LF Drive all the awy down for a clean low end? In that case you'll have a nice clean fundamental and then be distorting only the higher harmonics. I actually do the opposite; using healthy doses of LF Drive, but I like that some what fart-esque dist sound.

[ihateusernames]

Originally Posted by Johnny Crab

He DOES get an amazing sound that even comes across on youtube live stuff.

Apologies for no experience with your pedal
A Fulltone Bass Drive pedal can get close. A Line 6 BassPODXTLive gets much closer.

The closest I've EVER heard to that sound(say like the bass part in Phantom of the Opera when Tarja, bass, and drums only play) was hearing Amy with Clatter at a club in Houston which duplicated her sound recorded. She used the SWR Henry and a Mesa guitar amp:


Apologies for the detour and not knowing your pedal.

No low cut on the Mesa rig? That's interesting, I'd like to hear that in person.

[EricF]

As speak onion recommended, I'd suggest not using any - or very little - distortion on the LF and keep the HF cranked. This will help keep your fundamental strong, but still add the flavor of distortion on the upper harmonics where they are most noticed. Even your lowest notes will have upper harmonics to work with.

[benmoore88]

i'm curious about how big a guitar rig you do need when running a seperate guitar amp for some grit. primarily mic'ed up to 'layer' over my always clean sound through the PA?

i wouldnt' think you would require a massive full stack? or am i wrong...

will this immediately blow out the speakers?

[JanusZarate]

Originally Posted by benmoore88

i'm curious about how big a guitar rig you do need when running a seperate guitar amp for some grit. primarily mic'ed up to 'layer' over my always clean sound through the PA?

i wouldnt' think you would require a massive full stack? or am i wrong...

will this immediately blow out the speakers?

You could even use a SansAmp GT2 separate from your rig and effects chain - that'd be amp-free guitar emulation.

You only need as big of a stack as you think you need. If you're not using the guitar stack to monitor your dirty tone on stage, a small combo or amp emulator pedal does the trick just fine. Plus, those treble-oriented guitar amps tend to be louder for less wattage, anyway.

And no, it won't blow out your speakers. If it did, rock guitarists would be out of business, and we'd be playing by ourselves.

[Johnny Crab]

Originally Posted by benmoore88

i'm curious about how big a guitar rig you do need when running a seperate guitar amp for some grit. primarily mic'ed up to 'layer' over my always clean sound through the PA?

i wouldnt' think you would require a massive full stack? or am i wrong...

will this immediately blow out the speakers?

I can clone the sound using an ACME B2(clean signal) and my son's Line 6 Spider 212(set to the MESA sim). Amy doesn't use low cut on the guitar amp IIRC but she doesn't run it on 10 either, the Henry puts out the lows(and power).

Originally Posted by ihateusernames

No low cut on the Mesa rig? That's interesting, I'd like to hear that in person.

If you have ACME's or VERY GOOD speakers, put some of this on LOUD. Chris Rowe did a GREAT job of capturing what it sounds like live. Try "Left Out" and "Starve":
http://www.clatter.com/pages/blinded.html

PS:
In addition to Nightwish's bassist's sound, it appears he shared both sound and setup info with Delain's bassist Rob van der Loo( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delain ). The song "Pristine" contains what sounds very much like Marco(Nightwish) playing the bass at time 1:24~1:45.

Originally Posted by EricF

As speak onion recommended, I'd suggest not using any - or very little - distortion on the LF and keep the HF cranked. This will help keep your fundamental strong, but still add the flavor of distortion on the upper harmonics where they are most noticed. Even your lowest notes will have upper harmonics to work with.

+1
This is, in effect, what the two-amp setup does as the guitar amp has less bass response for sure and the SWR Henry gives the fundamental.

[grygrx]

Originally Posted by ihateusernames

No low cut on the Mesa rig? That's interesting, I'd like to hear that in person.

Off topic a little, but I think there is a nugget in here:
Clatter is a local band for me. I've chatted with Amy about her rig a couple of times. She is really just into making it work like she thinks it should, not messing with details all the time. All things being equal, more amps are always going to be more effective than more pedals. She is a damn horse and carries all that crap herself too, and here I bitch about my little rig.

Anyway, lovely person... cool band, and the wall of sound they can produce when she buts out the 12 string (triple course octaves) into that rig is wild.

[benmoore88]

"And no, it won't blow out your speakers. If it did, rock guitarists would be out of business, and we'd be playing by ourselves. "

i meant playing the distorted low notes of a bass - harm the speakers? they are a fair bit lower than anything on a guitar.

[JanusZarate]

Originally Posted by benmoore88

i meant playing the distorted low notes of a bass - harm the speakers? they are a fair bit lower than anything on a guitar.

True, but it's all about reasonable settings. Just lower the bass on the guitar head, and you should be fine.

They're not that much of a threat, really, as the speakers and amp won't reproduce much of that lower end of the spectrum to begin with (depending on the cab and head). Just trust your ears as you turn up the volume to make the proper EQ adjustments. You'll hear when it's too much.

[Traver]

Thanks for the answers, I've been able to get a better sound with some of your help. I probably have to tinker a bit more to get the exact sound I want, but at least now I'm closer