Growl Effect

[dreads311]

Originally Posted by Steveaux

I thought he was talkin' about my ex-wife.

Hehehe....

[Faraday]

Originally Posted by kurosawa

J Growl is essentially the same as P Grunt. Both describe delicate sonic events that can be easily destroyed. They are all about tightness in the bottom octave. Detail in that range may seem a strange subject, so let me liken this to the difference between MP3 and CD. The first time I taste-tested an MP3 file against a CD, I listened to an exposed low tuba passage. In the MP3, the pitch was reproduced faithfully, but that was all. On the CD, I could fairly hear each individual juicy flapping of the tubist's lips. Now there is no way that EQ or speakers or any other device can add what's not there. It can add emphasis to a certain frequency, sure, but not detail. So if we want grunt or growl, we need first to preserve that sonic event, then to make sure nothing obliterates it. If you're not hearing it with what you already have, no amount of adding boxes will help, so first fix what you have. After that, you may be reluctant to add more stuff because of the chance of wiping over the goodness you already have.

+1 You can effects that change the sound, but those effects will not add articulation and detail.

[pacojas]

who uses pedals for growl?!!

it's in the hands, bass, strings, and set-up, where i live!

growl is not overdrive/fuzz or the product of some gadget. if you need efx, you're doing it wrong, IMHO!


EDIT: what "kurosawa" said!

[rr5025]

I could be wrong but when I think of Jazz growl its that bridge pickup. So play near the bridge and boost the treble?

[skulletwhip]

Originally Posted by pacojas

who uses pedals for growl?!!

it's in the hands, bass, strings, and set-up, where i live!

growl is not overdrive/fuzz or the product of some gadget. if you need efx, you're doing it wrong, IMHO!


EDIT: what "kurosawa" said!

Please stay out of the effects forum if you are just going to say stuff like that.

[caeman]

The growl effect is more than just overdrive, it is a harmonic effect. The FEA Growler specifically adds in a 3rd or 4th to add growl where a bass cannot create the effect on its own. The TV Jones mini-humbucker in my Gretsch create a lot of harmonic growl that a j or p pickup never gave me.

Running two compressors in serial can sometimes create this sort of harmonic content.

[Vlad5]

Growl is a byproduct I've amplified with judicial use of the bridge pickup and a low-mid (@ 600Hz) boost.

A strong attack (fingers) also helps. You really want to get the strings vibrating. In other words, dig in!

Adding a touch of overdrive to the signal can help too. Just a touch though. You only want to enhance the harmonics a little bit. This will accentuate whatever growl you achieve from the above adjustments.

+1 on the FEA Growler. I had one and it is a growl machine, for sure.

...or sell the Fender, get a Warwick Thumb bass, and never again worry about how to achieve growl... like ever again.

[G3Mitch]

keeping fresh strings on your bass goes a long way.

I was really surprised the other night at rehearsal at how "growly" my tone was, cuz I hadn't changed strings in about 6 weeks. When I was loading my cab back in to my car I realized that the tweeter had been on the whole time. The dial had moved up in transit (normally have it off).

[kurosawa]

Originally Posted by caeman

The growl effect is more than just overdrive, it is a harmonic effect. The FEA Growler specifically adds in a 3rd or 4th to add growl where a bass cannot create the effect on its own. The TV Jones mini-humbucker in my Gretsch create a lot of harmonic growl that a j or p pickup never gave me.

Running two compressors in serial can sometimes create this sort of harmonic content.

Out of the 3 sounds you describe, I found samples for 1 (the discontinued FEA Growler samples at http://www.fealabs.com/media/index.html#Growler ).Out of 5 samples provided, the first is a normal bass voice. The rest are very synth-y "toy" sounds. On this first sample, there is a noticeable enhancement through my laptop speakers, but not my headphones. The unaffected signal has plenty of growl through the phones. So my question remains: if you begin with something with minimal natural growl, how are you going to add it in and still recognizably sound like an electric bass (i.e., without sounding like a synth, which apparently that pedal was)?

Or rather, some bass sounds have natural grunt or growl. The thread's inquiry is how to get that with a pedal. Huh?

[caeman]

Judging via PC speakers and head phones is probably not the best idea. The speaker efficiency of either will change what you hear.

Regarding use of serial compression (two compressors), here is a crappy clip I recorded of my experiment with two Guyatone ST-2 comps:
http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=11823444

At extreme levels of compression, it becomes outright distortion.

[capncal]

Originally Posted by father of fires

I know for me personally my Pbass (well, G&L SB-1) is the perfect bass for me but in my current band I really need a jazz bass sound but I can't afford an new bass (nor do I want one).

Eh, a lot of the effects and things you're gonna need to make your P sound more like a J is going to cost you about as much as perhaps an SX bass or even a used Squire J or something along those lines.

I mean, why buy a 200 dollar effect unit to make your P sound like a J when you can buy a 200 dollar J bass?

[caeman]

Or, upgrade your current bass to have both P and J pups.

[kurosawa]

Originally Posted by caeman

Judging via PC speakers and head phones is probably not the best idea. The speaker efficiency of either will change what you hear.

Regarding use of serial compression (two compressors), here is a crappy clip I recorded of my experiment with two Guyatone ST-2 comps:
http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=11823444

At extreme levels of compression, it becomes outright distortion.

I am not sure we are talking about the same thing.

[caeman]

Yes, we are. You see, I have direct experience with the FEA Growler and serial compression experiments. With a bass amp and through a PA system, not PC speakers and headphones. I am writing from direct knowledge of experiments meant to create that growling sound. The growl is not an overdrive sound, it is a harmonic effect. And it can be recreated with a pedal, because I have done it.

[ack]

Originally Posted by caeman

The TV Jones mini-humbucker in my Gretsch create a lot of harmonic growl that a j or p pickup never gave me.
.

Quick question: Are you referrring to the Jones-designed Gretsch mini-HB pickup in the G2022 or a different pickup?

[caeman]

Originally Posted by ack

Quick question: Are you referrring to the Jones-designed Gretsch mini-HB pickup in the G2022 or a different pickup?

The very same. When I first bought the bass, I didn't like it. But once I learned how to EQ it properly, I have come to enjoy it and now find P and J pups kinda wimpy.

[ack]

Originally Posted by caeman

The very same. When I first bought the bass, I didn't like it. But once I learned how to EQ it properly, I have come to enjoy it and now find P and J pups kinda wimpy.

Yeah, it's a killer little pickup. It can be a bit harsh if you don't EQ it properly, like you said.

Sorry about the de-rail, folks...interesting topic.

I've never been able to get much growl out of my P's, so I became a fan of the P/J.

[sratas]

Originally Posted by kurosawa

J Growl is essentially the same as P Grunt. Both describe delicate sonic events that can be easily destroyed. They are all about tightness in the bottom octave. Detail in that range may seem a strange subject, so let me liken this to the difference between MP3 and CD. The first time I taste-tested an MP3 file against a CD, I listened to an exposed low tuba passage. In the MP3, the pitch was reproduced faithfully, but that was all. On the CD, I could fairly hear each individual juicy flapping of the tubist's lips. Now there is no way that EQ or speakers or any other device can add what's not there. It can add emphasis to a certain frequency, sure, but not detail. So if we want grunt or growl, we need first to preserve that sonic event, then to make sure nothing obliterates it. If you're not hearing it with what you already have, no amount of adding boxes will help, so first fix what you have. After that, you may be reluctant to add more stuff because of the chance of wiping over the goodness you already have.

very very wise advice...I like your mind man

[kurosawa]

Originally Posted by caeman

Yes, we are. You see, I have direct experience with the FEA Growler and serial compression experiments. With a bass amp and through a PA system, not PC speakers and headphones. I am writing from direct knowledge of experiments meant to create that growling sound. The growl is not an overdrive sound, it is a harmonic effect. And it can be recreated with a pedal, because I have done it.

I saw the FEA Growler block diagram before their host suspended their account, and the blocks were synthesizer circuits, so I do understand what you are saying. However basses are basses and synths are synths, and electric basses do have grunt and growl of their own.

Now of course the box doesn't know what frequencies to synthesize without looking at the original signal, and mainly what it wants to see is a nice, easily identifiable fundamental. So the other aspects of the signal may even be undesirable to the extent they interfere with seeing that.

In any case, there is a certain immediacy and intimacy to the P grunt and J growl, delivered with interesting dynamics and envelope, and tied together by meaningful phrasing, that are very similar to the qualities of the human voice that all listeners instinctively latch onto and follow.

If this weren't so, we'd have gone the way of the dinosaurs when samplers made their way to the stage. Still, the further we get from the nuanced flow of the human voice, the less viscerally we connect. At some point along that path, we may as well be replaced by machines.

[Vlad5]

Originally Posted by kurosawa

I saw the FEA Growler block diagram before their host suspended their account, and the blocks were synthesizer circuits, so I do understand what you are saying. However basses are basses and synths are synths, and electric basses do have grunt and growl of their own.

I agree, which is why I recommended a Warwick. Realizing much of their growl comes from the active pickups/eq, some from the neck/fretboard woods used, some from pickup placement. So yeah, basses on their own can generate growl.

But I did find the Growler enhanced the effect noticeably, and was very useful in controlling the growl too.

So combinations of a naturally growly bass (Thumb) and an effect pedal (Growler) can together produce more growl than a person could need. Which is why I don't have one anymore; it's unnecessary with my bass. Though I do miss it as all FEA products are amazingly well built and thought out.