Guitar as a Bass : Octave question

CeroFrio · #1 07-08-2008, 01:08 PM

So I'm working on developing a system to cut out the middleman in getting my bass for songs. Here's my basic set up thus far:

My strat rip off plugged into a Boss Super Octave, then the dry out goes to my 2x12 guitar amp, while the wet (1 and 2 octave down) goes to my 4x10 bass amp. Since the pedal is in the OH-SO-AWESOME poly setting, I can essentially wail on the guitar Hendrix style, and I'll get a somewhat temperamental, but overall nice bass tone.

I'm wondering if there's anyway anyone can think of to make my bass tone sound more authentic. Right now it's kind of muddy/synthy. I've considered using an acoustic simulator on bass feed only, and seeing if I can "fake" a guitar sound. But I don't know if that'll do the trick.

Thanks!

Flintlock · #2 07-08-2008, 01:12 PM

To be honest I doubt you'll get any other responses then "get a bass player" here. I'm all for you using your guitar like that, but I doubt you could get rid of that synth-ed up tone, more processing wont help it much.

ErebusBass · #3 07-08-2008, 01:20 PM

IMO no guitar can sound like a real bass no matter what effect you put on it. Get a bass player, or become one yourself.

bkbirge · #4 07-08-2008, 01:23 PM

An octaver will not get you an authentic bass sound though it could be cool for a few things. A guitar player I used to record with tried that on his solo home demo project stuff and he was never happy with the sound, ended up just getting a bass.

Look for a bass VI type of instrument, then you can use your guitar techniques for the most part but you'll be playing a real bass. Danelectro, Jerry Jones, Gretsch, Fender, all made/make guitars that can handle this.

Jerry Jones, current model

Danelectro current model (baritone but you can swap strings and tweak the truss and you'll have the real deal)

Fender: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fender_VI

Gretsch (baritone but you can convert no prob):

ehque · #5 07-08-2008, 01:37 PM

Hrmmm, i have used a guitar as a bass by using my POG before.

As said earlier, the easiest way is to get a bass or a bassist. But really, if bass techniques are used on the guitar (ie. fingerstyle, light plucking, plucking near the neck) a strat does a pretty good Jazz copy sound.

Gashaponcito · #6 07-08-2008, 02:45 PM

Go look for Jack White's setup for Seven Nation Army

ikkim12 · #7 07-08-2008, 03:07 PM

word go buy a digitech whammy then lower the guitar to 1 octave lower. if you put little bit of distortion or overdrive, you will be able to mimick at least 30% of jack white's sound

CeroFrio · #8 07-08-2008, 03:15 PM

Thanks to...most of the answers thus far.

I realize now that what I ask sort of irks the sensibilities of bass players...

"Oh god, one of them's trying to replace us with a machine!!!"

I hope I can appease some of you slightly, by letting you know what this is for.

I'm writing songs/building a concept band. It will be a three piece, myself, a singer/bassist, and a drummer. Where it gets interesting is the singer/bassist (a very talented old coworker of mine) will be singer first, bass second. Most of the songs will just be me and the drummer providing rhythm, me also handling the lead (hendrix/jack white/pete townsend influenced), and her singing. She'd only play bass when my octave system simply won't do, or to add something other than the bass line (bass as lead or something more ambient to create wall of sound type stuff). The style of rock we'll be doing, the bass would be mostly just hitting the root anyway, which is why my system kind of works.

So yeah...not trying to re-invent the wheel, nor cut you all out of the music industry. Just trying to get a little concept off the ground.

Dogos · #9 07-08-2008, 03:40 PM

The best other method I can think of would be a Midi controller foot pedal thing, a la the Roland PK-5 to do the roots, but then there are obviously issues of money, co-ordination etc.

If you used a good modeling pre-amp you might get a nicer tone out of the octave output. Hope you find a solution.

superbassman2000 · #10 07-08-2008, 03:51 PM

personally I'd go with the whammy--I think the octave down setting is pretty good, and you can switch really easy--plus it has wet and dry outs--also you have a lot of other options with that too, you can do simultaneous guitar/bass, maybe put volume pedals after each wet/dry out so you can control which octave comes out when. Also you have all the other harmonies and shifts for future song ideas.

if you need just an octave pedal, check out rastop designed octave--it sounds pretty good imo.

but get the whammy

OptimusPrime · #11 07-08-2008, 03:55 PM

I'm currently developing a plan that involves a bass, a Micro POG, some bass effects, some guitar effects, a guitar amp, a bass amp and a drummer.

kevteop · #12 07-08-2008, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CeroFrio

I realize now that what I ask sort of irks the sensibilities of bass players...

"Oh god, one of them's trying to replace us with a machine!!!"

Not at all. Necessity is the mother of invention and all that. I've never met a keyboard player who played like Bernie Worrell so I keep buying pedals.

ksandvik · #13 07-08-2008, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CeroFrio

Thanks to...most of the answers thus far.

I realize now that what I ask sort of irks the sensibilities of bass players...

"Oh god, one of them's trying to replace us with a machine!!!"

I hope I can appease some of you slightly, by letting you know what this is for.

I'm writing songs/building a concept band. It will be a three piece, myself, a singer/bassist, and a drummer. Where it gets interesting is the singer/bassist (a very talented old coworker of mine) will be singer first, bass second. Most of the songs will just be me and the drummer providing rhythm, me also handling the lead (hendrix/jack white/pete townsend influenced), and her singing. She'd only play bass when my octave system simply won't do, or to add something other than the bass line (bass as lead or something more ambient to create wall of sound type stuff). The style of rock we'll be doing, the bass would be mostly just hitting the root anyway, which is why my system kind of works.

So yeah...not trying to re-invent the wheel, nor cut you all out of the music industry. Just trying to get a little concept off the ground.

Why can't the bass player/singer sing and play bass all the time?

Deluge Of Sound · #14 07-08-2008, 06:29 PM

If you get the whammy, you can also just add in an octave down harmony.

Should solve your problem, right?

CeroFrio · #15 07-08-2008, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ksandvik

Why can't the bass player/singer sing and play bass all the time?

A couple reasons. She sings great, and plays bass just fine, but multitasking doesn't come naturally to her. Also, if I can get this do both at the same time concept to work, she won't need to play bass.

We'll kind of approach all songs at first trying to have her just sing, me just play guitar (with the octave approach), and the drummer do his thing. If we need more, she'll play bass, or the sweet guitbass I made her. Down the road she may even pick up a six string guit like mine and learn to wail on it.

Anyway, the band is going to be built around my octave concept. I've saved 300 to spend on whatever I do to solve my problem. We'll start practicing in the fall.

I've heard you kind of have to learn to play with a whammy pedal, as opposed to other solutions. But I'll try one out and see what happens.

JimmyM · #16 07-08-2008, 08:06 PM

Listen, don't let all these fuddy-duddies bother you about using an octaver. Just realize that you'll have to make a few compromises along the way and you'll be fine.

envika · #17 07-08-2008, 08:29 PM

An octave pedal will indeed get you a good bass sound--but although it sounds good, it's not a very versatile tone--plus it just plain doesn't feel right IMO

ksandvik · #18 07-08-2008, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by envika

An octave pedal will indeed get you a good bass sound--but although it sounds good, it's not a very versatile tone--plus it just plain doesn't feel right IMO

It will certainly sound unique, so your band has a different sound compared with others. If you want that of course, it will not sound like a typical rock band, but in today's market uniqueness is a selling factor.

olaff421 · #19 07-09-2008, 12:12 AM

The octaver will do OK if you don't plan on using chords. If you do want to do chords get a POG, HOG (my preference because of the presets), or micro POG from EHX. They all do chords very well, have wet and dry outs, and can give you more than just the octave up/down and a few wierd harmonies (Whammy.) The HOG even has an expression pedal to do even more wackiness.

Happynoj · #20 07-09-2008, 04:46 AM

The problem with octave pedals is that a guitar doesn't sound like a bass (they are the same concept, but they do not make the same sound, although it is similar), which may be why it doesn't sound quite right - you can cover the frequencies, but it will still sound like a guitar an octave lower. Maybe the synthy sound is dues to the pedal. Have you tried any different pedals? It might be that a different octave pedal (for example the EHX ones) will give you a more natural bass sound.

My only other suggestion would be to play with the EQ on your bass amp.