Harsh EUB arco sound

eyvindwa · #1 12-30-2009, 03:59 AM

I was debating whether to put this in the DB/EUB forum or here, but ended up with the latter. Here goes:

So, I (attempt to) play an NS Design Bass Cello EUB (recently renamed to Omni Bass, it seems: http://nedsteinberger.com/instruments/omnibass.php). The instrument is great, but to me the arco (bowed) sound is kind of harsh or nasal sounding. Do you guys have any tips on how to "warm up" or "smoothen" the tone a bit? Are there any specific boxes for this purpose? I don't really care if it sounds like an acoustic double bass, I'm more after a pleasant arco tone given this instrument's own character.

Thanks!

MIJ-VI · #2 12-30-2009, 04:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eyvindwa

I was debating whether to put this in the DB/EUB forum or here, but ended up with the latter. Here goes:

So, I (attempt to) play an NS Design Bass Cello EUB (recently renamed to Omni Bass, it seems: http://nedsteinberger.com/instruments/omnibass.php). The instrument is great, but to me the arco (bowed) sound is kind of harsh or nasal sounding. Do you guys have any tips on how to "warm up" or "smoothen" the tone a bit? Are there any specific boxes for this purpose? I don't really care if it sounds like an acoustic double bass, I'm more after a pleasant arco tone given this instrument's own character.

Thanks!

Hi eyvindwa.

Have you posted in the Basses [DB] forum as well? You'll likely receive more experienced advice from folks who may actually play this cool instrument.

I expect that what we're dealing with here is an EQ issue. Harsh & nasal usually = excessive midrange.

What does your bass sound like with its EQ set flat (neutral)?

MIJ-VI · #3 12-30-2009, 04:22 AM

BTW. What are you playing your bass through?

JtheJazzMan · #4 12-30-2009, 04:35 AM

Luckily I spotted this thread. Arco is a whole new ball game.

I play a lot of arco as a soloist, and spend a lot of time playing arco on my NS too. Firstly I have spirocore solos on my bass. They are steel and work great with the mag pickups, and they are also good arco strings. Check if you can fit regular DB strings to that bass.

The issue sounds like it could be the strings, but the majority of the problem is probably your bowing technique.

IMO The best approach on the NS with light guage strings is unbleached white horse hair, and a harder rosin, like bernadel or jade solo rosin. The softer rosins grip too much and give the kind of sound youre describing.

Also you do not need to use much bow pressure. The bow should almost glide over the strings to let them breathe. Only use more pressure once youre 100% certain youre bowing perpendicular to the strings.

nella · #5 12-30-2009, 05:48 AM

I'm sending you a PM that's off-topic from your post so as not to derail your thread.

I'd appreciate any insight you could give me into my question.

Quote:

Originally Posted by eyvindwa

So, I (attempt to) play an NS Design Bass Cello EUB (recently renamed to Omni Bass, it seems: http://nedsteinberger.com/instruments/omnibass.php).

eyvindwa · #6 12-30-2009, 06:09 AM

Thanks for replying,

Quote:

Originally Posted by MIJ-VI

Have you posted in the Basses [DB] forum as well? You'll likely receive more experienced advice from folks who may actually play this cool instrument.

No, I didn´t try that (yet). I figured that I would try over here first

Quote:

Originally Posted by MIJ-VI

I expect that what we're dealing with here is an EQ issue. Harsh & nasal usually = excessive midrange.

What does your bass sound like with its EQ set flat (neutral)?

I play it with flat EQ as it is, through an Ampeg BA-115 combo at home. The amp is set to a little bit of treble cut and a little bass boost. Mid is flat. I might try to cut it a little (kind of the opposite of what I do with my BGs

). I haven't had the chance to try the instrument out in a band context yet.

eyvindwa · #7 12-30-2009, 06:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JtheJazzMan

Luckily I spotted this thread. Arco is a whole new ball game.

It sure is!

Quote:

Originally Posted by JtheJazzMan

I play a lot of arco as a soloist, and spend a lot of time playing arco on my NS too. Firstly I have spirocore solos on my bass. They are steel and work great with the mag pickups, and they are also good arco strings. Check if you can fit regular DB strings to that bass.

I don't think that it is possible to fit regular DB strings on it, as my instrument has a 34" bass guitar scale. It is supposed to take any old bass guitar string though, but I suppose those won't take well to the bow. I use the supplied NS strings that came with the bass now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JtheJazzMan

The issue sounds like it could be the strings, but the majority of the problem is probably your bowing technique.

Yeah, I would definitely not rule that out. I am studying with a teacher, though, so I hope to improve in that area as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JtheJazzMan

IMO The best approach on the NS with light guage strings is unbleached white horse hair, and a harder rosin, like bernadel or jade solo rosin. The softer rosins grip too much and give the kind of sound youre describing.

Also you do not need to use much bow pressure. The bow should almost glide over the strings to let them breathe. Only use more pressure once youre 100% certain youre bowing perpendicular to the strings.

Thanks for the info. I am using a Brazilwood German bow with black horse hair (this one: http://www.gollihurmusic.com/product..._BASS_BOW.html). Should I perhaps check out others?

I also use Carlsson bass rosin, but have no idea if that is considered hard or soft.

eyvindwa · #8 12-30-2009, 06:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nella

I'm sending you a PM that's off-topic from your post so as not to derail your thread.

My inbox was full, please try again.

bigblondeafro87 · #9 12-30-2009, 08:50 AM

The position of your bow relative to the bridge will affect the tone a lot as well. Closer to the bridge is a brighter more nasally sound requiring more bow pressure to get the notes to speak and closer to the fingerboard is a softer tone requiring less pressure.

JtheJazzMan · #10 12-30-2009, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eyvindwa

It sure is!

I don't think that it is possible to fit regular DB strings on it, as my instrument has a 34" bass guitar scale. It is supposed to take any old bass guitar string though, but I suppose those won't take well to the bow. I use the supplied NS strings that came with the bass now.

Yeah, I would definitely not rule that out. I am studying with a teacher, though, so I hope to improve in that area as well.

Thanks for the info. I am using a Brazilwood German bow with black horse hair (this one: http://www.gollihurmusic.com/product..._BASS_BOW.html). Should I perhaps check out others?

I also use Carlsson bass rosin, but have no idea if that is considered hard or soft.

Hmm, well you can get 1/2 size DB strings which are 96.5cm/38 inches. You may be able to fit them depending on how the strings lock in. Keep in mind DB strings have larger balls on the ends of the strings.

Even the fully metallic DB strings use a damping material in the core to give a mellower response when bowed. Otherwise the bow noise shoots straight down the string unhindered into the pickup and gives you the scratchy sound youre probably hearing.

Carlsons rosin is a softer one as well.

Dont give up though, you can get a great arco tone out of these NS basses with some experimentation.

eyvindwa · #11 01-02-2010, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JtheJazzMan

Hmm, well you can get 1/2 size DB strings which are 96.5cm/38 inches. You may be able to fit them depending on how the strings lock in. Keep in mind DB strings have larger balls on the ends of the strings.

That's an interesting idea! Any specific string set you could recommend?

Quote:

Originally Posted by JtheJazzMan

Even the fully metallic DB strings use a damping material in the core to give a mellower response when bowed. Otherwise the bow noise shoots straight down the string unhindered into the pickup and gives you the scratchy sound youre probably hearing.

That bow noise sounds like me, alright

. It seems odd, though, that the supplied strings do not have dampening, as they are primarily intended for arco, as I understand it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JtheJazzMan

Carlsons rosin is a softer one as well.

Ok, good, I'll try a different variant next time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JtheJazzMan

Dont give up though, you can get a great arco tone out of these NS basses with some experimentation.

Thanks for all the good advice, I will persevere!

dezspet · #12 02-22-2010, 01:56 AM

Hi,
Did you try a cello bow? I am going to order my Omni bass soon and I have discussed it with the factory and they suggest to use it with the cello bow.

eyvindwa · #13 02-22-2010, 02:20 AM

Really? What was the rationale behind that? I have not tried cello bows on it, but it would be interesting to hear from your (eventual) experience.

Arevi · #14 04-29-2010, 03:17 PM

I have had the bass cello for a couple of years, running through a small GK. I noticed the nasal sound too. My settings have been a little bass boost and treble cut on the pre amp, and cut on treble and bass on the GK. It got rid of the nasal sound. I have been using a soft rosin, but after reading the posts here I might try going back to a hard one.

I have been using a Glasser cello bow, but think a stiffer bow would be better on the 5 string instrument.