A heavyweight phaser battle

[Jared Lash]

Let me preface this post by saying there are no clips. Honestly, I'd like to set something up to record clips in the future, but I'm not really sure which route to go, so if anyone has any advice I'd be willing to listen. I have a Zoom H2 on the way (for capturing ideas mostly) but I'm not sure it's ideal for effects clips.

Anyway, here are the two phasers I currently have:


So here's a quick rundown:

Toadworks Phantasm

Very musical and incredibly tweakable. As the toadworks owner posted, it has a larger offset than other 4 stage phasers. I wouldn't say that it sounds like a 6 stage, but there is a noticeable difference compared to a normal script circuit phaser. It has VERY low noise (less than any other phaser I've tried) and the AC switches (Attack Controlled Depth and Attack Controlled Sweep) are very cool.

The Rate knob has a wide range (though I find most phasers unusable after a certain speed anyway) and width and axis knobs give you a lot of control over the range that gets swept through and where that sweep starts.

Alas, here's the problem I have with it. It simply isn't thick enough for me. Believe me, I wanted to love this phaser, but this is a deal breaker for me. Now, to be fair, I like a very thick phase sound and the Phantasm is about on par with the MXR and thicker than the Nebula from what I remember of it. Not that it matters much here, but it sounds incredible on guitar. But without taking this to a rehearsal or gig I already know that it isn't thick enough to be heard in a mix. It's headed back.

Maxon PH-350 Rotary Phaser

This one is less cut and dried. There are things I love about this pedal and things I hate.

What I love: With three knobs and three different stages (4, 6, & 10) this phaser has a wide range of sounds. You can go from warm vintage phasing to pseudo flange to burpy, synthetic sounds. Turning the feedback further into the positive range gives the phasing a fairly vocal quality. As a side note, I was disappointed with the negative feedback settings on this pedal until I tried the negative feedback on the Phantasm and found the same thing. Not only do both sound subtle on bass, I'm just not a fan of the sound.

What I hate: The wet/dry mix is automatically set at 50/50. I know you can run this thing in stereo and I think that means you'd get completely wet and dry signals out of each output but I don't know. If that is the case, I wish they would have included a switch between a 50/50 and a 100% wet mix. Some of the tones I like the most are hard to hear in a mix because of this.

Also, this thing makes some cool noises, but many of them take on a very "plastic" feel, something I initially liked about my Boss PH-3 but ultimately tired of. Another big problem is that this thing goes into crazy self-oscillation at either extreme of the feedback knob. Last band practice I turned on my amp without realizing the feedback knob had been bumped during the drive. It was ear piercing. It would be one thing if this was usable, but to me it's just a drawback.

Ultimately what it comes down to with this phaser is that I like it a lot but I don't love it. And at this price point I should love it. At the moment I'm thinking both of them are headed back.

However I DO want a phaser on my board so I'm not sure what direction to go. I may try out the Tap-A-Phase, though right now I'm thinking the Psilocybe is the way to go for a thick phase. Other than that? I am considering going back to the Nano Stone that I sold quite a while ago. I didn't love that phaser either, but I was OK with not loving it considering the price tag.

[kevteop]

Just a quick FYI: For a "thick"-sounding phaser, if you can find one, the old DOD 490 does the trick. Not hugely tweakable - it's just a two-knobber with speed and feedback - but works very well on bass. Only downside is no LED.

[bongomania]

BigO, I don't remember, have you used the Pigtronix? If so, how would you say it compared to these two?

[Jared Lash]

Originally Posted by bongomania

BigO, I don't remember, have you used the Pigtronix?

Yep.

Originally Posted by bongomania

If so, how would you say it compared to these two?

This is an example of why it is hard to describe sounds in words, because theoretically the the EP-1 is exactly what I want based on my comments of the other two phasers. It is is warm, thick and very organic. And as would be expected, the filter has those same properties.

But the phase sound itself is just too "polite" for me. It is very much a univibe type tone and doesn't have the "chimey" sound I like in the top end of a phaser. Turning up the Resonance and/or Intensity will make the pulses VERY prominent but it doesn't really change the character of the phase.

I've said this before, but for what amounts to a two switch (green or red inversion), 4 knob (Res, Int plus Rate and Character) phaser, it's not really all that tweakable. The green inversion is very subtle so I don't use it (at least on the phaser side) and the character knob has a small range (about 12 o'clock to 3) where it sounds good, so really I just set three of the knobs in one spot and only adjust the rate. That said, it's got a good sound but just not what I'm looking for. I want something a little more aggressive sounding with a bit more (for lack of a better word) "sparkle" in the top end.

The weird thing is that I'm not a guy who derives a lot of pleasure from testing out pedals. I like to find something that works and stick with it. But the problem is that I'm just really picky. The search continues. . .

[wdinc01]

You and I both. I would recommend a Maestro Stage Phaser, but I don't actually know how they sound because the one I bought was essentially dead on arrival. Which is to say, it didn't sweep. But damn, did my bass sound thick! Whenever I turn it on, it's like there's four P-pick ups working at once!

But uh...don't take that advice because I don't want any more competition in finding a new phaser. Once I get one, though, I plan on making sound clips so you guys can see for yourself.

If you manage to gather up some phasers for a shoot out (heh. Phaser shoot out...), that'd be awesome!

[Swimming Bird]

How do you mean 'plastic' sounding?

Have you tried simpler phasers like the Small Stone or Phase 90? I know it's a pain to only have one sound with a variable rate, but they can sound fantastic depending on the rig.

[Jared Lash]

Originally Posted by Swimming Bird

How do you mean 'plastic' sounding?

Again, very hard to explain without clips (and believe me, I'd be willing to make them if I could) but even though it is an analog pedal, it gets these very synthetic rather than organic tones. And I'm only talking about the 6 or 10 stage modes with the feedback at 9 o'clock or so. It makes the effect very pronounced, but just a bit "gimmicky" to my ears.

Originally Posted by Swimming Bird

Have you tried simpler phasers like the Small Stone or Phase 90? I know it's a pain to only have one sound with a variable rate, but they can sound fantastic depending on the rig.

Yeah, I liked the Nano Small Stone quite a bit. It was on my board for quite a while. I sold it (to James Hart I believe) when I got the EP-1. Right after I bought the Small Stone my guitar player bought an MXR so we traded for a week. A solid phaser for sure, but not what I like. As a side note, I'm surprised by the huge number of phasers based on the "script" circuit but I don't know of any that are boutique versions of the Small Stone. Why is that?

Anyway, here's what I've used so far in my phaser search:

MXR Phase 90 (also played a 100 in the store)
EHX Nano Small Stone
Pigtronix EP-1
Subdecay Quasar
EHX Polyphase and Moog Phaser (more in store experimentation)
Boss PH-3
Maxon PH-350 Rotary Phaser
Toadworks Phantasm
There might be one or two others, but that's what I remember off the top of my head.

Honestly, my favorites so far are the Small Stone and the Maxon. I'm still torn as to whether or not I want to return the PH-350.

I may try the Psilocybe, but I'm looking at one other possibility first.

[nad]

Thanks for this. I still lust for a Phantasm, in theory it does everything I want out of a phaser (attack controlled depth and the axis controls mostly).

[arbitrary]

If you can find you, try the Akai Intelliphase.

[Jared Lash]

Originally Posted by arbitrary

If you can find you, try the Akai Intelliphase.

I can always find me. I know where I live.

[Smurf-o-Deth]

Originally Posted by TheBigO

What I hate: The wet/dry mix is automatically set at 50/50. I know you can run this thing in stereo and I think that means you'd get completely wet and dry signals out of each output but I don't know.

No dice there, hombre. This is the one thing that really nags at me about this pedal, the fact that the wet out is still a 50/50 mix when running in stereo. It's by no means a deal breaker for me, but I can definitely see where it could be for someone else. If I could get this thing with a mix control and start and stop frequency controls (like on the Stereo Polyphase) instead of the depth knob, I'd be in phaser heaven. If I ever decide to start building effects, that is one on top of the list.

[Jared Lash]

Originally Posted by nad

Thanks for this. I still lust for a Phantasm, in theory it does everything I want out of a phaser (attack controlled depth and the axis controls mostly).

Me too. In fact, I told myself I was going to stop playing with it because it was going back and I couldn't help myself. I know I'm asking for the impossible for a thick phase that isn't completely throbbing when I'm either not playing or trying to let a note fade, but that's what I want. And the Phantasm does that. The phasing itself has a great sound, it's wet and chewy. The Axis and Width knobs have a weird dependence that isn't totally intuitive, but once you hit those sweet spots it is sweet. If it was just a bit thicker it would be perfect. My guitar player is telling me to keep it.

Originally Posted by Smurf-o-Deth

No dice there, hombre. This is the one thing that really nags at me about this pedal, the fact that the wet out is still a 50/50 mix when running in stereo. It's by no means a deal breaker for me, but I can definitely see where it could be for someone else. If I could get this thing with a mix control and start and stop frequency controls (like on the Stereo Polyphase) instead of the depth knob, I'd be in phaser heaven. If I ever decide to start building effects, that is one on top of the list.

The problem with the wet/dry mix for me is that when I crank it up to a setting where it is noticeable in a band mix, it is too prominent when I'm NOT playing. Plus, I can't imagine how embarrassed I'd be if it started oscillating like crazy during a gig. It does have an impressive range of sounds though.

My brief (and very subjective) time with the Polyphase was that it was cool but much too subtle for me. And that's odd because subtlety is not a characteristic I associate with EHX stuff. The only other pedal I'd characterize that way is the Doctor Q. Plus, like the Moog, I had no use for the square wave. But yeah, the controls are very cool. Not quite the same, but the Phantasm's width and axis knobs give a lot of control over the frequencies that get swept.

Ah crap. I have to sell/return at least three of the phasers I currently have, if not all four. I'm definitely done with the Boss. But after that, I'm just not sure.

Well, when my Zoom H2 shows up I'll definitely make clips of whichever one I keep (if any). It doesn't help that there's a TC Electronics B/K (bass/keyboards) phaser in fantastic condition on eBay right now. Somebody else buy it please.

[bongomania]

Originally Posted by TheBigO

Somebody else buy it please.

Would if I could.

[Jared Lash]

Originally Posted by nad

Thanks for this. I still lust for a Phantasm, in theory it does everything I want out of a phaser (attack controlled depth and the axis controls mostly).

You know what's interesting? The attack controlled depth was one of the options I was most excited about too, but now that it's here, I find myself using the attack controlled sweep much more.

[Lebowsky]

may I suggest you try a TC Electronics phaser?

[roflol]

Originally Posted by TheBigO

Let me preface this post by saying there are no clips. Honestly, I'd like to set something up to record clips in the future, but I'm not really sure which route to go, so if anyone has any advice I'd be willing to listen. I have a Zoom H2 on the way (for capturing ideas mostly) but I'm not sure it's ideal for effects clips.

Anyway, here are the two phasers I currently have:
Attachment 99569

So here's a quick rundown:

Toadworks Phantasm

Very musical and incredibly tweakable. As the toadworks owner posted, it has a larger offset than other 4 stage phasers. I wouldn't say that it sounds like a 6 stage, but there is a noticeable difference compared to a normal script circuit phaser. It has VERY low noise (less than any other phaser I've tried) and the AC switches (Attack Controlled Depth and Attack Controlled Sweep) are very cool.

The Rate knob has a wide range (though I find most phasers unusable after a certain speed anyway) and width and axis knobs give you a lot of control over the range that gets swept through and where that sweep starts.

Alas, here's the problem I have with it. It simply isn't thick enough for me. Believe me, I wanted to love this phaser, but this is a deal breaker for me. Now, to be fair, I like a very thick phase sound and the Phantasm is about on par with the MXR and thicker than the Nebula from what I remember of it. Not that it matters much here, but it sounds incredible on guitar. But without taking this to a rehearsal or gig I already know that it isn't thick enough to be heard in a mix. It's headed back.

Maxon PH-350 Rotary Phaser

This one is less cut and dried. There are things I love about this pedal and things I hate.

What I love: With three knobs and three different stages (4, 6, & 10) this phaser has a wide range of sounds. You can go from warm vintage phasing to pseudo flange to burpy, synthetic sounds. Turning the feedback further into the positive range gives the phasing a fairly vocal quality. As a side note, I was disappointed with the negative feedback settings on this pedal until I tried the negative feedback on the Phantasm and found the same thing. Not only do both sound subtle on bass, I'm just not a fan of the sound.

What I hate: The wet/dry mix is automatically set at 50/50. I know you can run this thing in stereo and I think that means you'd get completely wet and dry signals out of each output but I don't know. If that is the case, I wish they would have included a switch between a 50/50 and a 100% wet mix. Some of the tones I like the most are hard to hear in a mix because of this.

Also, this thing makes some cool noises, but many of them take on a very "plastic" feel, something I initially liked about my Boss PH-3 but ultimately tired of. Another big problem is that this thing goes into crazy self-oscillation at either extreme of the feedback knob. Last band practice I turned on my amp without realizing the feedback knob had been bumped during the drive. It was ear piercing. It would be one thing if this was usable, but to me it's just a drawback.

Ultimately what it comes down to with this phaser is that I like it a lot but I don't love it. And at this price point I should love it. At the moment I'm thinking both of them are headed back.

However I DO want a phaser on my board so I'm not sure what direction to go. I may try out the Tap-A-Phase, though right now I'm thinking the Psilocybe is the way to go for a thick phase. Other than that? I am considering going back to the Nano Stone that I sold quite a while ago. I didn't love that phaser either, but I was OK with not loving it considering the price tag.

have you tried looking inside there might be a trim for the blend?

[fuNKmaster83]

i put my money on the fact that inside there are lots of trim pots to get you your way!!!

[James Hart]

Originally Posted by TheBigO

Yeah, I liked the Nano Small Stone quite a bit. It was on my board for quite a while. I sold it (to James Hart I believe) when I got the EP-1.

Yup... that phaser was so close to perfect... but not quite. I replaced it with a Maxon PT-9 pro+ and haven't looked back yet

[bigchiefbc]

Originally Posted by TheBigO

Again, very hard to explain without clips (and believe me, I'd be willing to make them if I could) but even though it is an analog pedal, it gets these very synthetic rather than organic tones. And I'm only talking about the 6 or 10 stage modes with the feedback at 9 o'clock or so. It makes the effect very pronounced, but just a bit "gimmicky" to my ears.



Yeah, I liked the Nano Small Stone quite a bit. It was on my board for quite a while. I sold it (to James Hart I believe) when I got the EP-1. Right after I bought the Small Stone my guitar player bought an MXR so we traded for a week. A solid phaser for sure, but not what I like. As a side note, I'm surprised by the huge number of phasers based on the "script" circuit but I don't know of any that are boutique versions of the Small Stone. Why is that?

Anyway, here's what I've used so far in my phaser search:

MXR Phase 90 (also played a 100 in the store)
EHX Nano Small Stone
Pigtronix EP-1
Subdecay Quasar
EHX Polyphase and Moog Phaser (more in store experimentation)
Boss PH-3
Maxon PH-350 Rotary Phaser
Toadworks Phantasm
There might be one or two others, but that's what I remember off the top of my head.

Honestly, my favorites so far are the Small Stone and the Maxon. I'm still torn as to whether or not I want to return the PH-350.

I may try the Psilocybe, but I'm looking at one other possibility first.

Have you tried the EHX Flanger Hoax yet? It has a million different modes, but one of them is just a straight phaser with no flanging going on. I've done quite a lot of tweaking around with this pedal, mostly on synth rather than bass, but it can get as thick and effected as you want. Plus it has separate 100% dry, 100% wet, and blend (knob-controlled) outputs.

[rhcp32291]

Originally Posted by bigchiefbc

Have you tried the EHX Flanger Hoax yet? It has a million different modes, but one of them is just a straight phaser with no flanging going on. I've done quite a lot of tweaking around with this pedal, mostly on synth rather than bass, but it can get as thick and effected as you want. Plus it has separate 100% dry, 100% wet, and blend (knob-controlled) outputs.

And volume loss that made it hard to use in a band context
It was so cool too, but I couldn't justify keeping it. Very interesting effect