Help with Bass-ic pedal board effects

[clubdude]

Hello to all!

After playing guitar exclusively for 25 years, I've recently gotten a great ($$) bass gig. We play back up to a local "name", but we also play as three pieces a lot. So, I need some "fill in" effects. I started on bass many decades ago, but bass effects were not used much then.

I know I'm going for the following effects, and I've already narrowed my choices down, but I have a few questions.

I like the sounds of (in addition to my tuner and effects loop) an overdrive, an octaver, a synth (or synth wah), and a chorus. After buying an entire bass rig, I'm not looking at boutique effects. More Boss type effects. And my loop pedal can be used for any type tuner, because it has a tuner out (sorry, I know tuners are not effects), or in the effects loop like the TU-2. Preference?

Octaver: Do you guys prefer one that is simply an octaver, or one that has some overdrive, too?

Overdrive: As above, or separate?

Synth: Do you guys prefer the Digitech Synth Wah type or the Boss Synth type? And with its' deep low's, does that eliminate the need for an octaver? (I'd love to have the EH, but budget says no for now.) No need for overkill.

Chorus: I have an EH Small Clone, and in the studio it sounds pretty good with bass, but haven't used it on stage. Do you think an actual Bass Chorus would sound better than the EH?

As stated, I'm trying to avoid duplication. If a synth or synth/overdrive is all I need, then that could eliminate the octaver (for example). As long as I have access to one octave lower, some overdrive, a little chorus, and a synth to play around with, I'm good (I think. lol).

I'm not really looking for brand or model recommendations, except maybe for the synth question I asked, but feel free to suggest anything. What I need to know is what types of effects you guys use mostly on bass. We play popular bar cover music of all types, but mainly classic rock, oldies, and some funk stuff.

Thanks in advance.
CD

[SteveMcB]

You'll find a lot of different opinions. I play bass most of the time but guitar sometimes too. Play in church, not in band any more, no time

If I were setting up a bass effects rig for covers, not spending a lot I'd get:

OD: Sansamp BDDI (mildly overdriven SVT sounds), Digitech Bad monkey (heavier OD)

Distortion: EHX Bass Muff

Chorus: Boss Bass chorus (I own Peavey BAC2 which I would prefer but is out of production)

Synth: Digitech Bass Synth Wah - includes a good octaver (octave down only, only up to 50/50 mix with original tone) and a bunch of synth sounds of varying usefulness but some quite cool (I must confess I've only used one of them in church, but then most of the stuff we do is not synth-bass appropriate)

Tuner: I like the Ibanez LU20 (IIRC) it's cheap, accurate, bright, true-bypass and built like the proverbial brick.

I'd also think about a delay, and maybe an octave-up (micropog) to fill things in while the guitarist is soloing (although I just prefer to play a 12-string bass some of the time).

Good luck,
Steve

[clubdude]

Thanks Steve. Good answers.

I will probably get a Delay down the road, especially if I start doing a solo, which I'm not right now (except for short ones normally in songs).

I played a new Behringer BSY600 and a Boss SYB5 the other day, and the Behringer sounded a little better to my ears, believe it or not. It has a direct out, instead of stereo out, which I thought was cool. But I keep going back to the Digitech Snyth Wah, because so many folks seem to like it. But I don't like Digitech guitar pedals, so I'll have to try one. I've seen a bunch of youtube demos of the Digitech, and it seemed similar to the Boss & Behringer.

I'm not a big fuzz guy, btw. Overdrive is enough for me. A little growl and and an octave sounds really good to me. So, even though I love EH pedals, I would probably pass on the Big Muff for right now. I really would love to sit down with one, though. All I've heard is the EH demo's on their site. (Eventually I want an EH MicroSynth, but the $3K I just shelled out puts that on hold)

I'll have to check out that tuner, too. The Boss is overpriced, imo. I have one on loan from my guitarist, and it's ok, nothing more. After all, it's a tuner!

Still haven't decided on the octaver.. Whether I want a separate one, or if the one in some overdrives and the synth would be sufficient.

What about my EH Small Clone Chorus for bass? Opinions?

Thanks a lot!
CD

[sikamikanico]

I'd get a good overdrive pedal first (not distortion or fuzz, just overdrive). then a chorus. and the digitech bass synth wah, because it's fun and it does have an octave down mode

i'd put them BSW--> overdrive --> chorus

you might want to consider a good blender pedal if you choose pedals that don't have one built in. i never tried that, but maybe one blender pedal could work for both overdrive and chorus

[depalm]

Why wouldn't you go with Multi-Fx pedalboards like the Boss GT10b or a Pod XT Live?

I have tons of pedals but for some kind of gigs I'd go with multi FXs.

Just my 2 cents.

[clubdude]

A blender pedal? I thought I had heard of all types of pedals, but not that one. Its' name makes its' function obvious, but I've just never ran across one, or if I did, didn't realize that's what it was.

Sounds interesting. Please elaborate.

I'm trying to avoid tap dancing during a song. That's one reason I ordered an effects single loop pedal from Loop-Masters. (It also has a tuner out/mute switch) I don't know if the blender would help in that regard or not. That's also why I'm scratching my head about a octave pedal, trying to determine if I need a clean octave pedal, or just incorporate the ones in a bass overdrive and bass synth (wah).

Thanks.
CD

[clubdude]

Depalm. I certainly thought of that, but I've always been a stompbox guy. I bought a like-brand-new Korg Toneworks AX300b (no typo-not a 3000b), and after my guitarist (who's an experienced pedal freak) and I worked with it for hours, we realized it was more for studio (or EBAY. lol). All the settings had several effects on it, like EQ/Oct/Dist/Comp/Chorus, etc, so you couldn't manage them individually without becoming a programmer. That, I'm not, even though I love computers. I'm just a picker.

I've written to several manufacturers about why they don't make a mult-stompbox pedal, and of course they said they would pass it on. Not something you have to program and use multi-function dials and buttons to use. Something for stage, that had the most popular effects in it, and a loop for adding more. One power source and true bypass would be awesome, imo.

I will listen to suggestions regarding Multi-fx, though. But it would have to be one that is simple to operate on stage, and have the effects talked about in this thread, and not cost more than my amp head did.

Thanks,
CD

[Kooldac]

Originally Posted by clubdude

A blender pedal? I thought I had heard of all types of pedals, but not that one. Its' name makes its' function obvious, but I've just never ran across one, or if I did, didn't realize that's what it was.

Sounds interesting. Please elaborate.

I'm trying to avoid tap dancing during a song. That's one reason I ordered an effects single loop pedal from Loop-Masters. (It also has a tuner out/mute switch) I don't know if the blender would help in that regard or not. That's also why I'm scratching my head about a octave pedal, trying to determine if I need a clean octave pedal, or just incorporate the ones in a bass overdrive and bass synth (wah).

Thanks.
CD

Depending on what you use the Blender for, the loop pedal can accomplish this. Many bassist that I've seen use a blender to back up your tone with the original signal out of your bass to compensate for the lost bottom end that some effects produce (especially using pedals made for guitar on bass).

[sikamikanico]

Originally Posted by clubdude

Sounds interesting. Please elaborate.

a blender pedal blends in clean signal. i only have experience with Boss LS-2, which can serve other purposes as well... + it's quite cheap... I found it particularly useful for chorus and overdrive (even more for distortion and fuzz), though I never tried to put overdrive and chorus in the same loop...

the difference is, in theory, that while you can either blend in clean signal to your effects chain in one blender option, with more blending possibilities, you can blend each effect into whatever you've done with your signal beforehand.

so, in the second option, you can first blend clean and overdriven sounds and send that to "blender+chorus" unit, which will chorus a part of your clean sound and a part of your OD sound while letting through some of each un-chorused (i cannot say "clean" since a part of that sound should be overdriven)...

that's how I see it, I have no idea how i'd hear it

so, it would be fun experimenting, all you need is a chorus, an overdrive and an LS-2 or two though, you can find a chorus (or an overdrive) with a built in blender and save on one LS-2.


what I used was LS-2 with DOD 250 ovedrive into EBS Unichorus (which has an internal mix pot; I had mine set to 50/50 mix)... it sounded good. Probably the "one blender" option would sound very similar when using overdrive... with other effects, you'd get more variables and probably more different results...

when I realized I had all these possibilities (and not enough money), I sold most of my effects, to stop further GASing... so, I would actually recommend buying one pedal at a time and each pedal for a reason (not a popular concept on this forum, hehe). I say, start with on overdrive with a built in blend (depends on your budget, I've heard good things about 18V pedals, such as Maxon OD820) or overdrive and LS-2 (or some other blender)... maybe add chorus after a while..or you can start with a chorus...

cheap synth pedals are toys, I'd actually rather recommend an octaver pedal (OC-2 to be exact, as it can sound synthy + if you add a fuzz pedal later on, you get more "synth-like sounds" options)... best synth sounds still come from keyboards...

[pbass2]

Originally Posted by clubdude

I'm not looking at boutique effects. More Boss type effects.

I don't use effects much, so currently I'm getting by just fine with 3 Boss stomps. The ubiquitous ODB-3, the OC-3, and the SYB-3 synth.
They aint boutique, but they are solid and do what they do very well, and some nice variations are possible combining them.
The SYB-3 is a cool pedal, but it's tracking and sometimes unpredictable behavior take a little getting used to. It doesn't track too well unless you're playing VERY distinct, clean, simple. But it can also do some nice wild sounds if you want. It has an octave setting in it, but I wouldn't forgoe the OC-3 for it because of the tracking. In fact, for many cases when I'm mimicking a synth bass vibe, I used the OD and OC together---works great.
In a set I'm currently learning for some shows, there's only two songs where I need to hit something below low E, and rather than use my fiver (I prefer 4 string) the OC-3 covers me just fine.

[clubdude]

Thanks to all, for all of your recommendations. This was the feedback I was hoping for.

Thanks for the advice on the octave(r). It seems every stompbox I've looked into has an octave function, but I like the option of running the octave-down clean, or adding some distortion, chorus or synth to it. But it also gives me the option of playing straight overdrive, or straight synth, in addition to the clean octave down. I might want some drive on a low passage that I would not want an octave down, for instance, because it can get very muddy at super low E.

As far as the cost of effects you use, after 45 years at it, I've found some pickers love their cheap little effects more than they do a real boutique model, AND vice versa, so it's all in the ears, and between the ears, imo. After I have my "starter board", I can add a better sounding pedal later if I find one. I'm mainly looking at the types of effects used, rather than an actual brand/model recommendation.

I'll do more research on all your suggestions. But the ones that use some type of distortion, synth, chorus, and octaver seem to be thinking like I do.

Opinions on the SYB series Boss vs the Digitech Synth Wah?

No opinions on the EH Small Clone for bass?

Yeah, I'm a 4-stringer all the way on bass. My dad plays a mean banjo, like Earl Scruggs. It has FIVE strings. lol

CD

[SteveMcB]

I think the general consensus here is that the SYB series don't track especially well. Not everyone likes the BSW either, but I think it's a fair summary to say that of the lower-cost synths more people favour the BSW over the SYB, at least here on TB.

Never used the small clone sorry.

Steve

[Gashaponcito]

Bassic?? because is bass and sick?? hahahaha ok bad joke...

[Jared Lash]

Originally Posted by clubdude

Opinions on the SYB series Boss vs the Digitech Synth Wah?

No opinions on the EH Small Clone for bass?

While the new Nano version reportedly has a number of serious issues, the original is fine on bass. Much loved around here is the Analogman Chorus which started out based on the Small Clone, but if you're happy with the EHX I would stick with that.

The SYB sounds good but tracks horribly. The Synth Wah tracks better, but I didn't find the synth sounds all that useful. But as an octaver you really can't find one much better in that price range, so the synth sounds are like a bonus. If you don't like them, you can always upgrade.

Based on what you've said, I think this would be a good plan for you:

Chorus: Stick with the Small Stone
Octaver: Digitech Bass Synth Wah
Overdrive: DOD 250

You can use the BSW for Synth stuff and if you find it lacking (a good possibility) you can always upgrade later to a EHX Bass Microsynth or something else. This would cost you a little over $100 (less used) and be enough to get started.

If you wanted a gain pedal with a little more grit, you could try a Fulltone Bassdrive or Voodoo Labs Sparkledrive, but in any case, there's my 2 cents.

Good luck.

[clubdude]

Great suggestions, Big O.

I feel certain I will end up with an EH MicroSynth, eventually. But I haven't seen one for $100. Lowest I've seen is $135, and it was five years old with missing knobs. I like all the EH stuff.

My Small Clone has never even been gigged. I got it right before getting this bass gig, and it's not the Nano.

So, you can use the octave on the Digitech Synth Wah, without the Synth sounds? Didn't know that. I though it added the octave to the synth sounds, so you couldn't use the clean octave without the synth. Thus, you would eliminate a plain old octaver in that setup, huh? (I could get one of the newer UO300 Behringer/Boss copy for next to nothing to see how I liked an octaver with no synth, later.) But for right now, what you say makes sense, assuming you can use the octave on the BSW without any synth sound.

I want my board to versatile, but I certainly don't want any unneccessary effects. I can save that money for a delay pedal. I have to get used to using them correctly, also, so I don't need to start with too many. I think there's a consensus that the basics are distortion/overdrive, chorus, octave and synth. I want to be able to kick the octave by itself, and with each of the other effects i.e. oct/od, oct/ch, oct/synth, octave only.

That may be asking to much out of too little. lol
Thanks for taking the time,
CD

I'll check out the DOD 250. I'm not familiar with that at all.

[Jared Lash]

I don't know that there really is a consensus on what constitutes the "basics" but if there were I don't think a synth pedal would be among them. Synth is one of those effects for which there really aren't any good budget units IMO. The Korg G5, Akai Deep Impact and the Chunk Octavius Squeezer (which I have) all run in the $500 or more range. Do you really have a clear need for a synth pedal? If so, in what capacity?

Yes, you can definitely use the BSW as a standalone octaver. That's pretty much the only reason I bought one last year when I was going through a number of octave pedals (Boss OC-2, original EHX POG, EBS Octabass and Foxrox Octron). The Digitech more than held its own as an octaver.

[clubdude]

Follow-up on the DOD 250.

I didn't realize it was so cheap. Can't hardly go wrong there. My guitar pedalboard is full of modded analog effects, and this looks like more what I'm accustomed to. Thanks for the tip.

Found a store demo DSW for $50, with warr and original everything. Good deal? It hasn't been scratched, just shown by store salesmen.

Anyone else using the DOD 250? Opinions?

Gettin' closer..... Again, thanks to everyone.
CD

[Deluge Of Sound]

Al Cisneros uses one to great effect...

[clubdude]

Big O. The answer is no, I won't use the synth much. The Digitech will do me just fine. I will just use it for special situations, and to have some fun, so I wouldn't even think about sinking a lot of money into it. If I were to, it would be the EHMS.

I general, I don't have a need for over-the-top effects. I like subtle effects just to broaden and accent my sound, and to help fill. And we play a big variety of bar music, depending on the crowd... There's no question I will use the chorus, octave, and distortion more than a synth. I just like not to be limited, and the synth would allow me to experiment more, since I was a lead player.

I'm pretty sold now on the DigiSW. And the DOD 250 is looking good, but I'll need to try to find one to listen to. I have several tube screamers and modded OD's and DS's, but they all sound like crap on bass. I mean REAL bad.

Keep the Small Clone for chorus, in addition to above, and I think I'll be set for a good while. At least I have some great ideas to sleep on.

Thanks again.
CD

[Jared Lash]

Originally Posted by clubdude

I general, I don't have a need for over-the-top effects. I like subtle effects just to broaden and accent my sound, and to help fill. And we play a big variety of bar music, depending on the crowd... There's no question I will use the chorus, octave, and distortion more than a synth. I just like not to be limited, and the synth would allow me to experiment more, since I was a lead player.

This is about what I figured your situation was. The DOD 250 is a relatively transparent overdrive that I thought sounded pretty good on bass. And while I would think it would go without saying, there is both a Digitech Synth Wah (aimed at guitarists) and Bass Synth Wah.

Definitely try them out for yourself if you can, but there are also clips of each one in the TalkBass Wiki. Click on the WIKI link in the top bar, select Categories and then follow Effects to the Clips Database. I think there are even clips of the EHX Bass Microsynth if you're interested.

You probably already know this from playing guitar, but be warned: collecting bass effects is a habit that can be hard to stop. And you just landed in a forum full of junkies. But seriously, I think it's a good idea to start simple and cheap. If you decide to upgrade or just want a different tone or sound, there's a wealth of info and advice to be found here.