Help me create an ambient/noise setup!

[baalroo]

So, me and my guitarist have decided to do an ambient/noise project but I need some help...

here's the basic idea:

Bass->Volume->Distortion->Octave->Chorus->BassSynth->Reverb->Delay->Looper->Whammy->Reverb->Volume->Amp

The idea is to use the bass to get looped swells, hums, buzzes, and rumbles and use the Whammy to change the pitches POST looped sample..
Where you guys come in:

1) I would like suggestions for fulfilling each of these pedal needs as CHEAPLY as possible, since this is only a side project

2) any comments on "problems" with my general concept in regards to things like pedal order or how these effects will interact

3) any suggestions on "strange" or "quirky" pedals that would fit well into this set-up and add more "noise" capabilities without breaking the bank

4) Suggestions on the best order to purchase these items for maximum learning curve/fun for me (I can drop around $50 - $100 per week until the set-up is complete)

[bongomania]

Well, the order should change a bit. Not that you have it wrong -not at all- but rather you will want to try a variety of arrangements to discover which way works "best" to your ears. And then when it becomes oppressive, change it around again.

I'm sure you've read a variety of previous threads on "ambient", "looping", and "noise", right? So you'll have seen a number of conceptual suggestions elaborated in those threads, as well as many recommendations for "quirky" pedals. I'd also look up "glitch" for more ideas.

I'd start with the looper or the delay, personally, because you will have to spend the most time learning how to effectively "play" them. You can make them make ambient noise with no effort, but making "good music" with them requires many hours of practice, experimentation, and changes to your playing technique. I'd also get one of those first because they are immediately fun to play with.

On a budget, just buy everything used. There are some very cool Boss, DOD, Digitech, etc. delays and loopers from the '90s that you can find quite cheaply.

[Chronicle]

Whammy goes first in chains.

[markjazzbassist]

search function is your friend. search each pedal type and you'll get loads of info.

for ambient i would definately try to get some sort of analog or tape delay. those things are spacey as a motha and would help you get the ambient thing well. plus oscillation is good for your noise as well.

[baalroo]

First, I know whammy would normally go first, but my intent is not "normal." I actually don't have much exp. with a whammy, will it be able to track at all that late in the chain? it doesn't have to be a "clean" or "proper" sound.

Also, I'm fairly well versed in all of this, and have discussed(and/or searched) most of these things seperately. I just hadn't seen a setup quite like the one I'm envisioning and felt it was at least mildly worthy of it's own thread since I had a "multi-pronged" reason for the post.

[markjazzbassist]

Originally Posted by baalroo

First, I know whammy would normally go first, but my intent is not "normal." I actually don't have much exp. with a whammy, will it be able to track at all that late in the chain? it doesn't have to be a "clean" or "proper" sound.

Also, I'm fairly well versed in all of this, and have discussed(and/or searched) most of these things seperately. I just hadn't seen a setup quite like the one I'm envisioning and felt it was at least mildly worthy of it's own thread since I had a "multi-pronged" reason for the post.

if you already had a setup and know so much about pedals, why did you post and ask "what pedals should i get for each"????????

[Chronicle]

Originally Posted by baalroo

First, I know whammy would normally go first, but my intent is not "normal." I actually don't have much exp. with a whammy, will it be able to track at all that late in the chain? it doesn't have to be a "clean" or "proper" sound.

Also, I'm fairly well versed in all of this, and have discussed(and/or searched) most of these things seperately. I just hadn't seen a setup quite like the one I'm envisioning and felt it was at least mildly worthy of it's own thread since I had a "multi-pronged" reason for the post.

If you have the distortion before the whammy, it'll sound like complete ass.

[Taylor Livingston]

Here's a lengthy guide on ambient stompbox choices. It's written from the perspective of a guitarist, but that shouldn't matter too much.

[Taylor Livingston]

Originally Posted by Chronicle

If you have the distortion before the whammy, it'll sound like complete ass.

Did you read the part about how he wants to pitch his loop up and down? I don't think these universal decrees about where a pedal goes are helpful. People should try things out on their own - everyone has different objectives and taste.

[Mr. BooBoo]

Originally Posted by markjazzbassist

if you already had a setup and know so much about pedals, why did you post and ask "what pedals should i get for each"????????

I think what he is saying is he DID research some of these pedals and their information but wanted a less general scope of what these babies can do in the particular signal chain he is considering creating. maybe....I don't know. He can talk for himself.

on another note....why two volume pedals?

and try before you buy....if you can.

you may not need ALL of that stuff....

[bongomania]

Originally Posted by conical johnson

I don't think these universal decrees about where a pedal goes are helpful. People should try things out on their own - everyone has different objectives and taste.

+1

[baalroo]

I've got my own opinions on all this, I'm just wondering what you all think in case I've overlooked anything.

In regards to the two volume pedals:

The first is to regulate input of the actual guitar signal into the fx chain, the second is to control the volume of the end result.

[McSpunckle]

If you don't wanna spend the cash on an analog delay, the Ibanez DE-7's echo mode is great for ambient stuff.

[opivy3056]

Analog delays into digital delays sound pretty.
I also like chorus for more ambience.
And reverb for more ambience on top of chorus.

Oh and, more chorus.

Fuzzes after delays make everything nice and blurry, which is fun too.

But delay is the most important thing here. And analog is prettiest! (no matter what anybody tells you)

[edwinhurwitz]

What I would do is get a used Mackie or other mixer and run some of the effects (like the loops, delays, reverbs, etc) on effects sends. Then, you can blend them in a parallel fashion or series, depending on how you have things set up. You can run the output of various channels (where you are returning the effects) into other effects, so you can whammy your loops (highly recommended) and even run the output of the looper back into the input so you can overdub the whammy'd loops on top of straight loops, etc. Play with as many variations of effects orders as you can. Despite what some people may insist, when you are dealing with things like this, there are no rules and sometimes a distortion into a whammy is just what you need. It gives a very focused tone on the pitch that comes out of the whammy. It may be useless for a bass part, but for all kinds of other things, it's perfect. Run the distortion into the whammy followed by a slow phase into a big reverb. Or any other number of things. Try it all!

Even though a mixer seems like a very boring effect, once you get into it, it will become the most important tool.

Edwin

[markjazzbassist]

Originally Posted by conical johnson

Here's a lengthy guide on ambient stompbox choices. It's written from the perspective of a guitarist, but that shouldn't matter too much.

decent starting spot...search for a bio of your favorite bassists on bassplayer.com and they usually have their pedals listed.

use that as a starting point. the guitarists pedals are going to be a lot different than the bassists.

for bass i would suggest, reverb, analog/tape delay, digital delay, and lots of overdrive/distortion/fuzz pedals (lots of them, tons), and maybe a phaser, flanger, and definately a volume pedal.

bass = overdrive/fuzz/distortion. listen to a lot of that stuff, the guitar is what gets to do all the wild sounds, bass does dirt or delay or clean.

[Taylor Livingston]

Originally Posted by markjazzbassist

decent starting spot...search for a bio of your favorite bassists on bassplayer.com and they usually have their pedals listed.

use that as a starting point. the guitarists pedals are going to be a lot different than the bassists.

for bass i would suggest, reverb, analog/tape delay, digital delay, and lots of overdrive/distortion/fuzz pedals (lots of them, tons), and maybe a phaser, flanger, and definately a volume pedal.

bass = overdrive/fuzz/distortion. listen to a lot of that stuff, the guitar is what gets to do all the wild sounds, bass does dirt or delay or clean.

As I said before, I don't think these kinds of delineations are necessary or helpful. Who cares what your favorite bass players are doing? Do your own thing. This whole thing about what bass is allowed to do versus what the guitar is allowed to do is really regressive IMO, and this is the same as saying the bass should follow the kick drum and play roots and fifths. Should it really matter how some other band has their music structured? Is there any point in making experimental music if you're intentionally doing it the way other people do?

I think some people forget the experimenting part when they make experimental music.

[TaySte_2000]

Originally Posted by conical johnson

Here's a lengthy guide on ambient stompbox choices. It's written from the perspective of a guitarist, but that shouldn't matter too much.

I know fiveways, hes a fantastic musician and that isn't written from a guitarists point of view since he plays most instruments and has a gear collection that makes mine look like a childs hand me downs.

But that thread is pretty much a bible the man is a genius.

His first word of advice would be drop the whammy they suck (His words not mine)

[nad]

My noise/ambient project is based mostly upon my Frostwave Blue Ringer and Malekko Echo 600 Dark. Other stuff as well, but the main reason I started actually doing said musical journey is because of those two pedals.

I say get a cheap ring modulator (hint: I'm selling one ) and a Guyatone MD-3 delay. I have never used said delay pedal, but it is not expensive and self-oscillates.

[baalroo]

Some great stuff, and some pointless stuff. Ring Mod is a GREAT IDEA and perfect for what I'm doing... thought hadn't even crossed my mind. I also like the idea of the mixer board, but I wasn't planning on the Bass part of my rig being the "central" feature... I still might end up going that route though. Another specific question: What's a cheap octave pedal that is NOT very good at what it does (read as "noisy, poor tracking, piece of crap")?