Help me get the right looper

[Lord Henry]

I want (need?) to get a looper for both practicing/songwriting at home and for a new live project that I'm planning. The thing is that I have some specific requirements and I find that the adverts/websites are not too good at explaining the full functionality (or lack thereof) of each unit. Ideally I would go and try out a few units in shops but that is not very easy for me either time wise, or finding somewhere that carries anything other than the Boss RC-20. With a good recommendation I will be able to buy online, which would be much easier.

So, I'm hoping that if I lay out what I need (and what I don't) you guys can point me in the direction of a unit that does what I need but isn't full of stuff that I don't want to have or pay for.

What I need:
1 - I will be using it with both bass and guitar (though probably not both at the same time) so it needs to handle those frequencies well.
2 - I will be using this live and adding loops mid-song so I need to be able to record/start/stop/select loops using pedals in real time.
3 - I need to be able to record/overdub loops of varying lengths. Eg I want to record a two bar phrase that loops continuously, then put a four bar phrase over the top and also have that loop. As I understand it with some units (including the RC-20) if the initial loop is two bars then all subsequent layers put over that loop must also be two bars.
4 - Obviously sound quality is important and I want a faithful reproduction of the loop but I also appreciate that you get what you pay for and I don't want to break the bank so I'm a bit flexible on this.

What I don't need:
1 - Loads of tracks. I will probably never use more than six layers on any given tune but just to be safe 10-12 tracks would be fine.
2 - Massive recording time. I can't see any single loop running to more than four minutes (and that would be long, I’m mostly looking at 2-16 bar phrases), so even with six layers on the go 30 minutes of record time would be fine.
3 - Storage space. I will be creating all of my loops live so I don't need to be able to save loops and play them again later.
4 - Effects/tone modeling. The few effects that I do use come from pedals and I do all of my tone modeling at the amp. All I need is a true reproduction of what I just played.

So, what looper have I just described? All suggestions welcome (though responses from people who own/have used the looper in question would be particularly useful). Thanks in advance for the help and I'm happy to answer any further questions.

Cheers

[Bryan R. Tyler]

You will need a multitrack looper. That limits the choices quite a bit right there.

When you say "Loads of tracks. I will probably never use more than six layers on any given tune but just to be safe 10-12 tracks would be fine," what exactly do you mean? Any looper will allow pretty much endless overdubbing onto a track (an overdub will always be the same length as the track it is overdubbed onto). Tracks would mean individual loops that can be made to be in sync or out of sync with each other and can be overdubbed onto- meaning you could delete track 5 and its overdubs and all the other tracks will be unaffected. All the loopers I've seen handle guitar or bass with no issue. Here's a short list of the multitrack loopers out there:
Looperlative LP-1 8 tracks
Boomerang III 4 tracks
Boss RC-50 3 tracks
EHX 2880 4 tracks I believe
Gibson Echoplex ???
a used Repeater ???

The Looperlative is the best looper out there by far, but it is expensive and may have more features than you need. The newest Boomerang would be the second best option- its software is not yet fully featured as it just came out. The RC-50 would probably be next in line. The EHX is a neat unit, but it is not the most feature-filled unit out there and some important functions are missing. In the past it was also not a great choice if you wanted to control everything with your feet, but it is apparently becoming MIDI controllable (perhaps already has) which would be much more live-friendly. The Echoplex and Repeater were great units, but they are both pretty well out-of-date at this point and aren't getting any better.

[Vakmere]

Boss RC50 is a good one as mentioned above.

[Lord Henry]

Bryan, thank you for such a full and helpful post.

You're right that I was a bit confusing on the tracks issue. What I meant was that I only need about three separate loops, each with one or two overdubs.

Having researched your suggestions I have narrowed it down to the Boomerang III or the Boss RC-50. However, I can't find anywhere in the UK that supplies the Boomerang (and I dread to think what the import costs would be). Does anyone know of a company that supplies the Boomerang in the UK? If not I will go with the Boss, but I would like to compare prices.

Thanks again.

[Bryan R. Tyler]

I'd contact Boomerang directly to ask. Worst case scenario you'd pay for a US one in US dollars and then have it shipped over.

[MikeBass]

I have a Boomerang. I dig it, but as of yet I'm not really using more of what it can do.
And it's a bit noisy.

[Bryan R. Tyler]

The older Boomerangs could get noisy- the loops would degrade in sound quality once you started stacking them up. The new Boomerang III apparently has fixed this issue.

[Alper Yilmaz]

In terms of sound quality, my experience with RC-50 is better than the original Boomerang (Boomerang Plus Looper). But, I do not know how it would compare to Boomerang III Looper which Bryan mentioned in his message. From its technical specs, it sounds like the sampling rates have gone up.

Also, as a small unit I would recommend Digitech's Jamman; it is based on the original Lexicon Jamman, which I owned at one point as well. Digitech's sound quality is pretty good also. It is only one track though, and you would hit the barrier of fixed loop length you mentioned in your "would need" item 3.

RC-50 has few software glitches which Roland/Boss, most probably, will never upgrade; but for the price, it is still the best looper in my opinion and experience.

Regards,

Alper

Originally Posted by Lord Henry

Bryan, thank you for such a full and helpful post.

You're right that I was a bit confusing on the tracks issue. What I meant was that I only need about three separate loops, each with one or two overdubs.

Having researched your suggestions I have narrowed it down to the Boomerang III or the Boss RC-50. However, I can't find anywhere in the UK that supplies the Boomerang (and I dread to think what the import costs would be). Does anyone know of a company that supplies the Boomerang in the UK? If not I will go with the Boss, but I would like to compare prices.

Thanks again.

[Hoover]

Originally Posted by Bryan R. Tyler

The older Boomerangs could get noisy- the loops would degrade in sound quality once you started stacking them up. The new Boomerang III apparently has fixed this issue.

"fixed this issue" ? More like "disabled this awesomely cool feature" !

[Bryan R. Tyler]

Lower sound quality equates to an awesome feature? Boy, then I have some awesome old cassettes taped off of the radio that I can sell you at new CD prices....

[fightthepower]

Originally Posted by fottin

In terms of sound quality, my experience with RC-50 is better than the original Boomerang (Boomerang Plus Looper). But, I do not know how it would compare to Boomerang III Looper which Bryan mentioned in his message. From its technical specs, it sounds like the sampling rates have gone up.

Also, as a small unit I would recommend Digitech's Jamman; it is based on the original Lexicon Jamman, which I owned at one point as well. Digitech's sound quality is pretty good also. It is only one track though, and you would hit the barrier of fixed loop length you mentioned in your "would need" item 3.

RC-50 has few software glitches which Roland/Boss, most probably, will never upgrade; but for the price, it is still the best looper in my opinion and experience.

Regards,

Alper

Which software glitches are you referring to?

The only issues I've experienced are the MIDI 'SLAVE' not being functional (pretty big one.. sucks having to use the rc50 as a master but thats what Im doing now). You also can't pitch loops by slowing or speeding them up- they get choppy.

Also, in the factory configuration, when you start a loop, the very first one has a 1/4second drop off as it loops around- this is to make sure that the first loop is perfectly on time to the quantized beat, even if you are stepping on the switch an 1/8 or so of a second off. There is a firmware update that addresses this, and give you the option of keeping the original mode (easier to loop on time, workaroundable) or in the instantanious mode (especially useful when not using the built in beats and just looping on the fly).

The MIDI functionality (or lack thereof) is the biggest drawback of the RC50 and it's a shame that Roland hasn't/won't release another firmware update for it. Other than that, it is a nice looper and for the price, there isn't anything replacing it at the time being, though I've been interested in the EHX 2880- at some point I may try it out because I think for live use, theres a possibility that it could work out better for me-

For the OP's list of requirements, the RC50 would probably do the trick well. 3 individual phrases (loops) with nearly unlimited overdubs (unless the other patches are filled up), quantized single and multi modes, great sound quality.

[MikeBass]

Originally Posted by Bryan R. Tyler

The older Boomerangs could get noisy- the loops would degrade in sound quality once you started stacking them up. The new Boomerang III apparently has fixed this issue.

I wonder if you can update the software.....may have to contact them about that.

[Happynoj]

I have a friend who's band (not really a band, it's only him) is entirely based on looping - he beat-boxes and sings and plays keyboards and loops it all and combines it with some pre-recorded backing stuff. He swears by the Electrix Repeater.

[fightthepower]

Originally Posted by MikeBass

I wonder if you can update the software.....may have to contact them about that.

The Boomerang III is the new model that has been slated for release the last year or two iirc. It's a completely different model with different casing, functions etc- I can pretty much guarantee that the software would not be compatible with the older Boomerang's unfortunately.

You can update the software on the new ones.. if they ever finish it! Preproduction models of the new boomerang III were released last month with out some significant functions, but the promise of being updated to the finished software whenever they get it all worked out.

[fightthepower]

No wonder the Boomerang III still hasn't come out... they've been too busy with the Rang E155

http://www.boomerangmusic.com/E-155.html

[Alper Yilmaz]

Hi fightthepower,

A few issues come to my mind...

- When I would like to record a loop at any patch, say, # 35, as soon as I press the Rec/Play/Overdub button, the drum machine starts playing very loudly, even if the Guide Level is set to "off." In order to get rid of this, I have to turn the Guide Level a but up, and then turn it back to "off" to get rid of this. So, sometimes unexpected drum patterns get in the way! This might be due to the fact that I have recently switched to RC-50 and I might not be using the unit in the most proper way. Or my unit might be defected which I never questioned, but I think the warranty is already over. I would appreciate if you know how this can be fixed.

- When I have something recorded already in Phrase 1, with the Loop Sync option on, the end of Phrase 2 is cut a bit. Somehow this does happen always. But I could not figure out a standard way to get around this. And, of course, I understand that when Loop Sync is on "the loop repeats with each phrase aligned according to the length of the longest phrase." (Owner's Manual, p. 28). Again, this might be just me, not the unit...

In general, I must say that I am impressed with the sound quality of this unit though. The other alternative I would pick would be the Digitech Jamman despite the fact that it is much simpler a unit and lacks most functions the RC-50 has.

Cheers,

Alper

Originally Posted by fightthepower

Which software glitches are you referring to?

The only issues I've experienced are the MIDI 'SLAVE' not being functional (pretty big one.. sucks having to use the rc50 as a master but thats what Im doing now). You also can't pitch loops by slowing or speeding them up- they get choppy.

Also, in the factory configuration, when you start a loop, the very first one has a 1/4second drop off as it loops around- this is to make sure that the first loop is perfectly on time to the quantized beat, even if you are stepping on the switch an 1/8 or so of a second off. There is a firmware update that addresses this, and give you the option of keeping the original mode (easier to loop on time, workaroundable) or in the instantanious mode (especially useful when not using the built in beats and just looping on the fly).

The MIDI functionality (or lack thereof) is the biggest drawback of the RC50 and it's a shame that Roland hasn't/won't release another firmware update for it. Other than that, it is a nice looper and for the price, there isn't anything replacing it at the time being, though I've been interested in the EHX 2880- at some point I may try it out because I think for live use, theres a possibility that it could work out better for me-

For the OP's list of requirements, the RC50 would probably do the trick well. 3 individual phrases (loops) with nearly unlimited overdubs (unless the other patches are filled up), quantized single and multi modes, great sound quality.

[phat daddy]

+1 on the Digitech Jamman. I own this looper and it's the easiest pedal to use in comparison with anything in it's price range, and has the most features too. It has some things you don't require, but this is a pedal you can grow into.

I only wanted one for simple 2-4 bar live use, but the pedal's capabilities have made me reach farther creatively.

[Bryan R. Tyler]

Originally Posted by phat daddy

+1 on the Digitech Jamman. I own this looper and it's the easiest pedal to use in comparison with anything in it's price range, and has the most features too. It has some things you don't require, but this is a pedal you can grow into.

I only wanted one for simple 2-4 bar live use, but the pedal's capabilities have made me reach farther creatively.

It's also not a multitrack looper, which is one of his main requirements I'm surprised you found the Jamman to be the "easiest" in its range when it is equally easy to use the Boss RC-20XL and probably less easy than an Akai Headrush.

[Lord Henry]

Yep, multi-track looping is definitely a must, but thank you for all the comments so far.

I e-mailed Boomerang a few days ago and I haven't heard anything yet. I've read a few reviews that mentioned that Boomerang are pretty bad at communicating with customers so if anyone else hears about a BIII on sale in the UK could you let me know. I appreciate that being as new as they are that might be unlikely but I just thought I'd ask. It will be a month or so before I have the coin together so if anything comes up...

Cheers