How can I help fill out a trio setting

jmeyers44 · #1 11-13-2009, 05:40 AM

Hey Gang,
I've been playing for 13 years and really haven't used any effects. I like them a lot I just never know what to buy and when to use them. A while ago I was playing in my church band and it was a trio setting which is rare. When the guitar player when to solo I noticed that the sound of the band thinned a bit. My bass was there and solid in the mix but I felt I could of been doing more if I had the right effect. So my question is what could I have done? Maybe an overdrive to help when the guitar quit playing rythem? An octave pedal perhaps. Help???

MAMMOTHvolume · #2 11-13-2009, 05:48 AM

get an 8 string bass! i think generally a bit of distortion would help fatten out the sound though.

MNAirHead · #3 11-13-2009, 05:54 AM

some type of doubler or extended range with double stop ghost chording.

Jazz Ad · #4 11-13-2009, 06:05 AM

The octave is typically a good straight ahead solution for this. You play an octave higher, there still is bass in the mix and you fill the rhythm guitar spot.

Kenny Allyn · #5 11-13-2009, 06:47 AM

Long time trio player here ...

Ran into the same issues you describe, after playing for years just plugging straight to the amp.

My pedals evolved over time, and have stayed the same for about two years now. Here is what I use and but it's just a taste of what is available.

If you just want a slight boost in fill and keep it clean a compressor kicked in may be all you need, works like a radio/TV commercial, you know how the signal seems louder, it;s actually not, it's just less "dynamic" ie: compressed .
I use an EBS Mulitcomp.

Modulation can enhance your sound and works great on slow/ballad type tunes, it gives you a full "watery" sound many are available, I use a Voodoo Lab Micro Vibe , I lke it on a slow sweep. This unit retains the bottom end some types don't.

Tube simulation, adds a fat tube type sound, my fave is the Tech 21 VT Bass it has many settings mine is set between the "Fliptop" and "SVT" mode.

Octave up and octave down, I use an EBS Octabass for octave down and an EHX Micro POG to go octave up (it will do both) neither is an effect you will want to use all of the time, just nice accents when needed.

Overdrive/Fuzz, this was the first effect I tried, and as a joke no less, I used my guitar players old EHX Big Muff at practice one day during a solo and kinda went whoa, that's different! The "muff" ate up too much bass, so I bought a Roger Mayer Voodoo Bass, works great, only use it maybe once or twice a show, and then only as an accent.

Some of the "effects" I use together, some combinations don't play well together. All are only tools of the trade, and sometimes I still play "barefoot" with NO effects.

Hope this is some help?

...

wetzelman1 · #6 11-13-2009, 08:17 AM

i'm in a trio, albeit metal, but I've done a lot of research on this topic. Obviously more etreme in my case, but having 1 guitar makes solo's a bit less epic. In my case, I use a bass big muff. The fuzz changes the dynamics of your tone but not really the tone itself. On blend, the fuzz kindof fills in that space behind the guitar, while also allowing the bass tone to come through. When the solo's come, the fuzz then starts to be more audible as playing the rythm guitar. Sonicly I picture it as the fuzz registering in the same range as the guitar, so it acts as a background guitar, with the bass still being able to cut through in it's appropriate sonic space.

I'm surprised no ones mentioned a chorus yet. Mild chorus helps fatten out the bass into a larger space of sound. Just be sparing cuz you can easily get way to 80's.

I personally use the bass big muff, aphex bass xciter and Hartke VXL Attack with everything on all the time.

groooooove · #7 11-13-2009, 10:11 AM

i think i would reccomend almost any effect for this. modulation, dirt, octaves, delay / reverb, any of them could be effective if your trying to fill out sound...

simple, buy a few of each and see how it goes

dannybuoy · #8 11-13-2009, 10:18 AM

AKAI Unibass - it provides an octave up plus a 5th, with optional distortion, so it can chug out guitar-like power chords above your root notes. You can also send the effected output to a separate guitar amp. Doesn't sound as good as a real guitar of course, but good enough for filling out the sound during live use!

unclekebm · #9 11-13-2009, 10:26 AM

make better use of 'Space'
the space between notes are still notes...

IMO using effects should be 'cause you want to, not 'cause you have to

being in a Trio doesn't mean you have to fill up space
It means you have to create a Deep Pocket & Groove

Knowing how to manipulate your Bass with touch IE;
chords, more or less intensity, fretboard position, note duration & right hand position helps a lot

jmeyers44 · #10 11-13-2009, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by unclekebm

make better use of 'Space'
the space between notes are still notes...

IMO using effects should be 'cause you want to, not 'cause you have to

being in a Trio doesn't mean you have to fill up space
It means you have to create a Deep Pocket & Groove

Knowing how to manipulate your Bass with touch IE;
chords, more or less intensity, fretboard position & right hand position helps a lot

Very good point. Thank you.

rcubed · #11 11-13-2009, 10:51 AM

Run two amps - one clean, one with effects.

lowregister · #12 11-13-2009, 11:38 AM

Some tight delay, almost reverb like does make some good fill.

MNAirHead · #13 11-13-2009, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lowregister

Some tight delay, almost reverb like does make some good fill.

Many rooms it can also dirty the band mix.

dvh · #14 11-13-2009, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by unclekebm

make better use of 'Space'
the space between notes are still notes...

IMO using effects should be 'cause you want to, not 'cause you have to

being in a Trio doesn't mean you have to fill up space
It means you have to create a Deep Pocket & Groove

Knowing how to manipulate your Bass with touch IE;
chords, more or less intensity, fretboard position, note duration & right hand position helps a lot

Absolutely right on. Helps in the creation of dynamics also. I'm not a fan of a constant wall of sound. I guess it depends on the musical genre also.

nad · #15 11-13-2009, 11:50 AM

So is there some underlying hatred/confusion about what trios are all about? I see these type of threads all the time and never understand the concept. Some of my favourite moments in music (playing, listening, thinking about in my head, etc.) involve a guitar solo with nothing other than the bass and drums laying down the foundation of the music below.

Kenny Allyn · #16 11-13-2009, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by unclekebm

make better use of 'Space'
the space between notes are still notes...

IMO using effects should be 'cause you want to, not 'cause you have to

being in a Trio doesn't mean you have to fill up space
It means you have to create a Deep Pocket & Groove

Knowing how to manipulate your Bass with touch IE;
chords, more or less intensity, fretboard position, note duration & right hand position helps a lot

Well stated ... and totally true!

You want to evaluate every aspect of your playing from note placement to overall tone and your relationship to the other instruments.

Example ... my previous guitar player used a Gibson SG with humbuckers and an amp with two 12s, his style included full overdriven single notes and open chords. I found myself moving from a P bass strung with GHS Pressurewounds to a Jazz with rounds and playing with a bit busier style than usual.

My current guitar player uses a Strat with a Fender Super Reverb with four 10s, his style is more rhythmic chording up and down the neck, and fast single note flourishes. My style became more simple and fuller, Jazz with flats and sometimes the P bass. Even my choice of amps and speaker cabs is evolving to the new sound.

...

jmeyers44 · #17 11-13-2009, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nad

So is there some underlying hatred/confusion about what trios are all about? I see these type of threads all the time and never understand the concept. Some of my favourite moments in music (playing, listening, thinking about in my head, etc.) involve a guitar solo with nothing other than the bass and drums laying down the foundation of the music below.

I don't think so. Some good ideas came from this thread. I was actually reminded to listen more than do the same old thing. I origionally stated that I don't play in a trio setting often and was wondering if I could do something more. I was used to having a rythem guitar and wasn't used to it being just me. My playing and the band in general didn't sound band at all. I don't use a lot of effects (compression) and was wondering if I could do something different with an effect. I think the bottom line is I need to listen better....and maybe a little fuzz or an octave pedal

cheapbasslovin · #18 11-14-2009, 12:46 PM

When I'm trying to fill in a part that is being soloed, usually the first thing I examine is what I'm playing. Usually that gets me where I want to be. On the occasions that it doesn't or when I want more on the lines that do work, I usually start with an octave up or octave down.

For a semi convincing rhythm guitar sound I go HOG > English Muff'n but I think that a Micro POG into any distortion will approximate that sound.

SteveC · #19 11-14-2009, 01:04 PM

I would look at what/how you are playing. The answer may not lie in more effects but in more effective playing.

Snakeman1066 · #20 11-14-2009, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rcubed

Run two amps - one clean, one with effects.

+1 here

i play in a power trio

1 amp to a 4x10 4 Ohm
1 amp to a 1x15 4 Ohm

i run a 4x10 dirty (Fuzz and Overdrive) and a 1x15 totally clean....when the guitard goes to solo i kick in the effects on the 4x10 and when he is done i kick them

if that doesn't work i also play a lot of Double stops with a little chorus on songs that don't work well with dirt