How to fill out the sound when missing an electric guitar

[Bass-desires]

Hey Guys, I play in a little church band and we really don't have an electric guitar. As of now we have Acoustic, bass, Keys, and (sometimes) drums.

Can you fellas make some suggestions on how I can try to fill that void the Elec leaves? I know I cannot replace it, but can I do anything effect wise to compensate?

We play at least one rock-type song and the rest are mid to slow tempo. And I learned I cannot do bass lines with these guys, I 'am' the rhythm sections some days and have to stay strong and consistent. I dono if this helps....

Thanks guys!

[fitz420]

perhaps try a EHX Micropog. it adds octave up and/or down, tracks perfectly and tracks chords.

[JMDT]

I play worship music with similar limitations at my church on sundays. There is a lead guitar player, but other than solo's he really backs down in the mix leaving me a ton of space to fill.

I've found that some sort of 'distortion' pedal is great for this situation. I rotate between a Way Huge Pork Loin for lower gain uses and an Earthbound Audio Supercollider for more gain on faster rock type songs. The Pork Loin is an overdrive pedal with a clean blend that is great for both capturing the dynamics of your playing and adding warmth or light grit. With the clean blen it can even retain the dynamics of slapping while addind a bit of grit to the signal. The Supercollider is a high gain fuzz pedal based on the EHX Big Muff Pi. It sounds great on fast songs, but can be a bit much on slow songs, especially in a church setting if you know what I mean. For your application, I would recommend you first check out an overdrive pedal. Naturally I will say you should check out the Pork Loin as it is my favorite sounding OD pedal, but if you seach around there are a number of OD's that people use around here.

If you need to further expand the sound from the dirt pedal, the next place I would look at is modulation effects, chorus and flange especially. These effects used tastefully can thicken up your sound considerably. I prefer flange for the application you will be using it for, but most people like chorus. The Boss offerings are a great place to start a search for modulation effects.

Delay and/or reverb could work, but I've yet to use it successfully without sounding really muddy.

Octave up/down pedals could also work, but they usually require a different approach to playing or different amping solutions to get the full benifit. I use an Octaver as a special effect for certain songs, but with a full octave down, I use play an octave up the neck to compensate.

Like I said earlier, check out an overdrive pedal first and see if that works for you and then go from there.

[Bass-desires]

I have been toying with using a bit of distortion, but am unsure how it will sound.

The sad thing is I have the Boss Eq pedal and an old Zoom multi effect pedal that I picked up to see what kinds of effects I would like. It doesn't sound bad, but it lacks some quality.

I will give it a try at practice and see how it sounds.

I was also thinking an octave effect might work well.

PM me if you have any advice on the church setting, I don't want to get too OT here.

[cheapbasslovin]

Subdecay Noise Box.

On a more serious note, I think an LS-2 with a guitar overdrive, an EQ pedal and maybe a MicroPog and/or delay in one loop would really fill out a second sound. Delay may be a problem, though. Delay proved to me to be difficult to grasp in live settings and while I love the sound now, it is still a bit of a struggle to use it right when I hear a place for it.

Being strictly a root player makes it difficult for you to be the guy to fill in the sound IMO.

[Fred19137]

I really don't know what you are looking for, all these guys have been talking about effects, but what I thought of when I read your post was harmonics. A few years back I used to play for my youth group and I had similar limitations. Looking back now I wish I had knew how to use harmonics in the way I use them now. So I guess I am trying to say yeah you can look into effects for a quick fix, however, growth in your playing as far as learning new techiniques(specifically harmonics) is something that will aid your playing where ever, when ever, forever. For insiration in this topic I suggest Michael Manring. You may already know of him in which case you probably know better than me how to play with harmonics, but if you don't his playing will inspire you to learn playing techniques at completely different levels than you have ever played before.

[Bass-desires]

---(Sits down in lotus position)---

Please, tell me more of these harmonics?
I know if Manring's stuff, I really dig his "Thonk" cd but some of his others are way too.....ambient and soft for me.

[Din Of Win]

For "more" sound i would think*:

Octave: POG, Micro POG, POG2, EBS Octabass, Boss OC-2/OC-3

Chorus: Boss Bass Chorus, Boss Multi Chorus, Dalelectro Cool Cat Chorus

Reverb: Digitech Digiverb, EHX Holy Grail, EHX Cathedral(i think that's what the new one's called)

Delay: Boss DD-3/DD-7, Akai Headrush E2, Line6 DL-4, Digitech Delay, MXR Analog Delay



A good combo i found for an easy/cheapish fill out the sound.. er... sound, was MicroPOG + EHX Holy Stain (Reverb w/subtle 'dark or warm' OD settings) + Boss Bass EQ to give a slight low-end boost after the Holy Stain ate some of it.



*These are pedals i have personally used. I am sure the affluent TB members will chide in on the higher-end pedals.

[robd]

I don't use any effects so I can't help you there, but I find that using a tone with a lot of mid range definition, as well as low end, and then using octaves instead of single notes where I can, will do a lot to fill up the sound when I play with a 3 pc band.

[crapusername]

an 8 string?

[totalimmortal08]

play chords

[JonathanD]

^ play chords. Strum a little on the bass. I use a roland VB99 and do octaves/5ths/7ths up.

Or, find a guitar player. there are too many. give one something to do.

Best of luck.
Jonathan

[TheMutt]

One of the churches I play for is in a similar position (bass, acoustic guitar, drums). I find that utilizing the higher strings, double stops, playing the inbetween notes before chord changes, copping the guitar's fills for the song or making up your own, chorus, octave, overdrive/distortion/fuzz, and reverb/delay depending on the song helps to fill in the space.

[michael_atw]

As far as I know - Jesus doesn't give a crap about how "full" the music is. I've been playing in a worship setting for roughly 3 years which often does not even have an acoustic...and what I've done since progressing technically is just play out more in instrumentals and "solo" areas, maybe playing a solo in the upper octaves on the bass. The keys pick up, and the vocals gain importance. The vocals should carry worship songs anyways, IMHO...

nonetheless, forget pedals. It's worship, not a concert.

[Swift713]

First of all, don't be afraid of space. It only takes one instrument to make good music. Other than that, play some fills, harmonies, create rhythmic tension, or use a bit of delay or something like a micro pog with octaves up and/or down to make a string section.

[Spacelordmother]

Originally Posted by michael_atw

As far as I know - Jesus doesn't give a crap about how "full" the music is. I've been playing in a worship setting for roughly 3 years which often does not even have an acoustic...and what I've done since progressing technically is just play out more in instrumentals and "solo" areas, maybe playing a solo in the upper octaves on the bass. The keys pick up, and the vocals gain importance. The vocals should carry worship songs anyways, IMHO...

nonetheless, forget pedals. It's worship, not a concert.

clips?

[René_Julien]

I don't know anything about playing in a church, P&W songs and P&W band settings.

But here are my opinions on filling the space left behind by a guitar:

I must disagree with the POG suggestions.
I bought an Akai Unibass this week (don't have it yet, it's on the way) and out of curiosity I played around with my POG to see how that will do on guitar emulation and bass and guitar unison. The POG will sound more like an organ. Wich is very cool if that's what you're after. I don't know if you can use a more organ-like sound for your P&W music... if that's the case think about a POG. (I'm thinking of replacing my POG with a HOG for weirder effects and instrument emulations.)

The Unibass I have coming, I got that to fill in for the rythm guitar in a metal setting, and for more syntheziser-like lead parts à la powermetal. I know it doesn't do a perfect job simulating distorted guitar powerchords, but I don't want that. If it gets about 70% close I am happy. It will just be a background effect, I'd still like the main focus on my bass playing and the sound of my bass (and other effects I like for my bass sound and amp).


IMO, I don't think octavers would be the right thing for you at this moment.
I like octavers, but it's not what I think of immediately if you want a subtle effect to fill the sound spectrum.
At least... I never have done that succesfully. And I'm not really sure what you are after.

Wich brings me to this:

Originally Posted by Fred19137

For insiration in this topic I suggest Michael Manring. You may already know of him in which case you probably know better than me how to play with harmonics, but if you don't his playing will inspire you to learn playing techniques at completely different levels than you have ever played before.

Yup.
Although I am no authority on what Manring does.
But I agree: different playing techniques you can learn.


My first band was a trashmetal powertrio.
In the original songs we played (side note: crappy songs ), when we did some mellower parts I strummed along simple 2-note chords on the D and G string, while the guitarist played a mellow solo over it. My bass sounded very close to a clean electric or acoustic guitar playing rhythm chords in their lowest range. (Although off course it lacked the texture of full guitar chords.)
Downside is: there is not really a "bass" part with root notes.

It boils down to that, you can't expect to do rhythm chord work and root bass notes at the same time...
Well, some people can. Like said before different more difficult techniques you can learn.
Much like how a well-trained classical guitarist can play his guitar playing lines in two different octave registers.


Sure, you can go the effect route. But keep in mind that your sound will be "affected" (duh).
It's up to you if you can live with that and can use it in the music you play.


BOSS claims that their PS-5 can simulate a guitar with coursed strings. I have no experience with that, perhaps someone else can chime in on that.

Or a bass guitar with real coursed strings can be a good solution.


my 2 cents

[dannybuoy]

EHX HOG for organ sounds would work quite well, check out this clip:

http://www.ehx.com/blog/effectology-hammond-b3-organ

[René_Julien]

Originally Posted by dannybuoy

EHX HOG for organ sounds would work quite well, check out this clip:

http://www.ehx.com/blog/effectology-hammond-b3-organ

That's why I want it to replace my POG.

Because aside from organ emulation the HOG can do other wonderful things.
I found a clip in wiki by TBer cheapbasslovin where he set up the HOG so it emulated (IMO) a celtic flute.
I thought that was pure awesomeness.


I also have a BOSS RT-20 Rotary Ensemble on the way. I saw some demo clips (on guitar) of it and it seemed to do a nice job of emulating a rock organ à la 70s (prog) rock with it's overdrive.
IME with the POG: it's more of a big church organ it emulates.



Sorry... this strayed a bit off topic.


Back to the OP's question.
Unless he wants this awesome organ emulation to fill the space in his P&W setting.
I know I would do it... but I'm an atheist.
Nonetheless... music, the enjoyment of playing it is universal.

[jufros]

Try a non-subtle chorus. It will sound subtle in a live setting anyway. I recommend the CE-5.