How hard could this be? (PP2+ splitting outlets)

enjoi1018 · #1 09-27-2012, 05:30 PM

I've already emailed Voodoo Labs and searched the interwebs and TB, but I thought I'd get your brains churning while I wait...

I have ten pedals on my board that require power. One of them is an LED equipped bypass looped, so no current problems there. In order to run 10 on a PP2+, I ordered two of the Voodoo Labs "outlet splitter cables" to split outputs 5 and 6 (they have the maximum available current).

One split of the cable is ground lifted to prevent ground looping problems. no matter what pedal I use, with either cable, I can't get any power from the ground lifted side of these splitters. I know there is one way to hook them up, and I doubt BOTH are faulty. I've tried different combos of pedals and all. No avail.

What the frak?

CrayZee_One · #2 09-27-2012, 06:59 PM

What the frak indeed!?!

I have PP2+ and run about 10 peds too.

I just bought some generic splitters and the odd daisy chain..... no probs!

I'm not sure I understand the nature of the cable you are refering too. I would think if you lift the ground on one cable, you will not complete the circuit and get no power.
Maybe this cable was designed to be used in some other way???

I think I would just send them back for a refund and buy some generic splitters.....lots available on the interwebs/evilbay.

Good luck in your mission!

metalinthenight · #3 09-27-2012, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrayZee_One

What the frak indeed!?!

I have PP2+ and run about 10 peds too.

I just bought some generic splitters and the odd daisy chain..... no probs!

+1 I do this as well. No problems at all. The OneSpot cable from GC is like $5

enjoi1018 · #4 09-27-2012, 07:49 PM

That's what's SO confusing. They BOTH act the exact same. I don't know why they aren't doing what they're supposed to. Any link to these said splitters?

http://www.voodoolab.com/shop/index.php?cPath=22_24_33

I have the output splitter cable, the last on the page.

enjoi1018 · #5 09-27-2012, 08:13 PM

And here's the explanation from Voodoo:

"The lead with the white stripe has its ground lifted. The device powered from this lead must get its electrical ground connection via the audio signal path.

This design is intentional as it eliminates the possibility of creating a ground loop (a common source of unwanted hum/buzz when daisy chaining power).

Thus, If the LEDs you specify do not share a common ground connection (like most FX pedals do), they will not work to be powered from the splitter.

Thanks for the inquiry and please let me know if you would like further assistance."

So would your Boss pedals (with they're function to only power on when a cable is inserted in the input jack) work? I'm going to try to hook up the Boss pedals I have to the ground, but I'm still not sure it will work like it should.

cheapbasslovin · #6 09-27-2012, 10:38 PM

Just pick up the visual sound one spot splitter cable. They come in 5 to 1 or 8 to 1 varieties and have always worked great for me, plus they are cheap.

If you aren't using fully shielded cable then I expect your grounds can't be completed via signal path. I don't KNOW that is your problem, but that could play a role.

enjoi1018 · #7 09-28-2012, 11:19 AM

Again, forgive me if I'm being dumb, but isn't the initial connector to the One Spot a female 2.1mm barrel? The Voodoo Labs insert is female. How would you connect them?

Edit: I have an old One Spot I'm not using, and it has the power cable daisy chain. Is that what you're talking about?

sunbeast · #8 09-28-2012, 07:49 PM

Use a standard 2.1mm barrel cable into the PP2 box then add the daisy chain onto the other end. Just be sure to cover up the metal contacts on any connections you aren't using...

boomertech · #9 09-28-2012, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by enjoi1018

And here's the explanation from Voodoo:

"The lead with the white stripe has its ground lifted. The device powered from this lead must get its electrical ground connection via the audio signal path.

This design is intentional as it eliminates the possibility of creating a ground loop (a common source of unwanted hum/buzz when daisy chaining power).

So if you had two 100mA pedals on this ground lifted splitter, they think that it is better to force an extra 100mA of power current through the signal ground to the other pedal and then back to the supply?

I am still scratching my head trying to see where this makes sense. It will work on some pedals, but I have seen too many issues with power current on signal grounds. I also don’t think the designers of pedals intended their signal ground path to be used as a power source for another pedal.

-Frank

cheapbasslovin · #10 09-29-2012, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by enjoi1018

Again, forgive me if I'm being dumb, but isn't the initial connector to the One Spot a female 2.1mm barrel? The Voodoo Labs insert is female. How would you connect them?

Edit: I have an old One Spot I'm not using, and it has the power cable daisy chain. Is that what you're talking about?

Yes that is what I was talking about. You just don't use the female connector. It is all just parallel connection (which means each connector will have the same voltage across it) so you connect one of the 5 'males' to your power supply and the other 4 to pedals.

(there is a semantic argument to be made about whether the plug is male or female, but I'll leave that for another day)

enjoi1018 · #11 09-29-2012, 07:55 PM

^ You just made my day. Out of town, but I will try when I get home. I'll let y'all know!

pineapplerobot · #12 09-30-2012, 02:05 AM

I have 10 pedals on the PP2. 8 are from the pedal source, #9 is coming from my tuner out power source (that is a looper with only the LED being powered) and the 10th is using a one spot from the external plug on the back of the PP2, no problems at all and everything is nice and smooooooth.

Fro 20 · #13 10-01-2012, 02:36 PM

I bought three of those VL splitters (w/the ground lift) and had a hell of a time finding pairs of pedals that would work with them. I would say if your power supply is decent and doesn't cause alot of noise, then get grounded splitters, not the VL ones

enjoi1018 · #14 10-01-2012, 05:39 PM

Yeah those splitters just plain blow. I tried my old One Spot daisy chain, works like a charm.

Another point for TB. Even the email from the manufacturer had me stumped, but you guys fixed it.

**Lebowsky** · #15 03-18-2013, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by enjoi1018

And here's the explanation from Voodoo:

"The lead with the white stripe has its ground lifted. The device powered from this lead must get its electrical ground connection via the audio signal path.

This design is intentional as it eliminates the possibility of creating a ground loop (a common source of unwanted hum/buzz when daisy chaining power).

Thus, If the LEDs you specify do not share a common ground connection (like most FX pedals do), they will not work to be powered from the splitter.

Thanks for the inquiry and please let me know if you would like further assistance."

So would your Boss pedals (with they're function to only power on when a cable is inserted in the input jack) work? I'm going to try to hook up the Boss pedals I have to the ground, but I'm still not sure it will work like it should.

can someone translate this for me in practical terms? does it mean the two pedals powered by the output splitter must also be connected directly with an audio jack?

cheapbasslovin · #16 03-18-2013, 02:49 PM

The pedal with the white striped power lead has no ground connection to it's power supply (and therefore won't work) UNLESS there is a continuous path to the ground of the pedal with the black power lead via 1/4" patch cable shields.

Hope that wasn't too convoluted.

**Lebowsky** · #17 03-18-2013, 03:07 PM

hummm ok but how could it not be the case on a pedal board? there is a path between all pedals isn't there?

cybersnyder · #18 03-18-2013, 03:19 PM

Does anyone know of a manufacturer that produces daisy chain cables like the OneSpot cable, but in smaller number of plugs? The OneSpots come in 5 or 8 plugs. I have a couple places that I want to use 2 or 3 pedals on the same power supply but would rather not have all the extra cabling under the pedal board. Glad to hear that the VL cables are next to worthless, I probably would have tried them.

cheapbasslovin · #19 03-18-2013, 04:03 PM

Not all cables are shielded and not all circuits have the negative at the exact same reference point as the ground. Most do, so it works usually but it really should be a solution to a ground loop hum and not the first recommended solution for daisy chain, IMO.

EDIT::: The power circuit is completed through the sheild of the cable, not the signal conductor. So there is a connection, but without a good cable and solid pedal construction, you're out of luck.

cheapbasslovin · #20 03-18-2013, 04:12 PM

Cybersnyder: Just cut them in half and isolate the wires in the cable from each other. I stripped the cable back and cut one wire shorter than the other, then folded them both over and put heatshrink on the whole assembly. There's more than one way to skin that cat.

If you do a neat job there's only a little extra cable and no big bundles of wire.