How much patience with builders is required?

[FilterFunk]

First of all, let me say this: I wholeheartedly believe in supporting independent gear builders! However, I've recently had two less-than-stellar experiences with builders who only take pre-orders. Once they took my money, one of them never contacted me; the product just showed up a long time after the estimated build time. I'm still waiting for the other item, which I paid for 12/30/2009. At least this guy contacted me twice after the sale, but only after I repeated e-mailed him. I only e-mailed these guys after the estimated build time to see how things were going. I understand the work can take longer than the estimate, so I have no problem waiting longer; I just want to updated at least once a month or so! Builders are very busy - I get that - but buyers are busy, too, and I buy gear because I need it. I don't have the budget to buy stuff just for fun. I'd love to keep supporting small builders, and I don't want to be unreasonable, so I ask: How much patience should one have with builders who take pre-orders, but don't contact buyers after the sale?

[rcubed]

I'd say it depends on if building is a hobby or their primary source of income. The hobby guys are usually musicians, and thus slackers.

[chicago_mike]

I can atest to the slacker part. I am building a few effects for friends but Im not carging anything until they are done. I am lucky to have enough parts to do this a couple times till I would need some sort of deposit.

[warwick.hoy]

Originally Posted by FilterFunk

I buy gear because I need it. I don't have the budget to buy stuff just for fun.

While I commend your desire to support the little guy, if you are short on time and can't wait then you should probably go with the mass produced stuff (unless what you are looking for can't be found mass market). This is one of the reasons why pros and touring bands use off the shelf stuff.

That or go used.

Edit: I'd grow a little impatient too I've I was being ignored,...but some of these builders are bigger and more poopular than you think and probably recieve a lot of communications and may or may not have the staff to handle them.

[bongomania]

It's a case-by-case thing. Some builders are all about the communication and timely delivery; some are great at communication, but the delivery is not necessarily timely; some deliver on time, but don't communicate much; and some are terrible at both.

How much patience you should have depends on what you know of where the specific builder fits into that range.

[electracoyote]

Originally Posted by FilterFunk

How much patience should one have with builders who take pre-orders, but don't contact buyers after the sale?

This is a slippery slope, but my advice is, be polite and respectful, whatever you do.

There are certain people in the service world who I do not offend or anger, such as the guy at the restaurant who cooks my food and the wait person who serves it to me. Make them angry, and you could get something other than what you were expecting.

Yes, as the customer, you have rights. But push it too far, you could end up regretting you ever got involved with this builder. On the other hand, be patient and respectful, you could end up with your dream bass.

You either want your bass quickly, or you want it built correctly, but you may not get both.

Just keep the channel of communication open and don't get pushy. That has served me well anyway.

P.S.--My last small-builder bass took 4 months. It's an absolute cherry, well worth the wait.

[wsmerwin@hotmai]

Let's begin with a contract. Spell out the details of your arrangement with the luthier. Set up a timetable and projected end / delivery date. If you want monthly reports say so in your contract. If you cannot customize your agreement have someone else, who will accommodate your wishes, build your guitar. There are too many fine builders available to quibble over who is in control. That said, make allowances for illness or injury. Plan for substitutions of parts or materials (arrange to be contacted in advance of making changes for example). Finally, any time a building project is undertaken, from a dog house to the space shuttle, delays are often inevitable. Thirty days is a reasonable period of time to resolve most disputes, and ninety days constitutes a breach of contract for either party's non compliance. Be fair and you can expect to be treated fairly. GET IT IN WRITING and when there is a dispute you have the contract to guide you. There is no need to take crap from anybody unless they are both unprofessional and the only game in town. If you're willing to spend money to get what you want a little planning goes a long way toward satisfying everyone.

[warwick.hoy]

Okay,...are we talking about boutique effects or boutique basses here? Customer service should be considered equally but turn around times and money spent I think would come into to play.

[megadan]

+1 slackers
I build pedals for people locally but sometimes it takes me a long time, I'm just lazy and busy. Sorry. If I was doing it as a business I'd be a lot faster.

[dannybuoy]

I've ordered pedals before that should have taken a month, then 2 months later I'm still waiting for a reply. I don't 'need' the pedals so don't mind waiting, but the lack of communication is really annoying.

So is returning a pedal only to be told that I'll get my refund when they can afford it in a few weeks time. I understand times are hard for many people but if I was told I could be waiting weeks for a refund I would have sold it on instead!

[nad]

I waited 19 months for a bass that was supposed to be done in 3 months.

I waited 7 months for a pedal that was supposed to be done in 7 days.

Communication was decent to bad with the first, okay with the second (but I got discounts). Waiting is often all part of the game, as long as I don't feel like I'm getting hosed I try to remain patient.

[gnasher1993]

I've only had one custom build and was thoroughly impressed.

It was pretty painless. But how much patience is required? I'd say it depends on the builder and their work-load.

[Dennis Cottone]

I'm fed up with these guys too. I won't mention any names at the moment since I'm currently trying to get a credit card charge reversed since the threshold of my patience has been crossed. I would recommend paying in a form that will allow you to get the charges reversed and have the builder email you up front as to the build time. That way, you'll have a leg to stand on if you later want to reverse the charge. Since when is it OK to say a product will be shipped in 6 weeks and it takes 3 months or more and the product is no better than what is readily available from a store or used. It's not like you're waiting in line for a liver transplant. Builders should absolutely honor their end of the agreement otherwise get blasted here on TB.

[FilterFunk]

Thanks for all the replies. It's good to get other views on the matter. I guess my main points are (a) if you take money in advance, be ready to deliver on time, or at least fairly close to it, and (b) keep in touch! Don't ignore your customers. An occasional e-mail is a lot better than nothing.

[Silent Fly]

I am really sorry to hear that some of you had bad experiences with some builders. I like to think that are isolated cases - there are a lot of companies out there that do their very best to keep their customers happy.

I would suggest the following:

- Ask about the delivery time and the likelihood it will be delivered after the deadline.
- Ask around about the builder.
- Unless you know/trust the builder, don’t pay 100% upfront.
- Post negative comments if you are not happy about the service. Don’t get too personal or aggressive; simply state the facts.
- Have something custom built only if you are ready to wait. If you already know that you need something quickly try to find an alternative solution.

Constant updates are an expensive exercise for a builder. If you don’t have a specific agreement and you are not ready to pay a premium price for constant update, I think it is unlikely that you’ll get it.

Having said that, I think every customer is entitled to a quick answer to a request of project status. The builder has your money and you have all the right to know what they are doing with it.

[electracoyote]

Originally Posted by FilterFunk

I guess my main points are (a) if you take money in advance, be ready to deliver on time, or at least fairly close to it

He gave you an "estimated" delivery. Read: "loop hole." It gives him about as much flexibility on the timeline that he wants to take.

and (b) keep in touch! Don't ignore your customers. An occasional e-mail is a lot better than nothing.

This can be frustrating, no doubt. I feel your pain.

Again, you're at his mercy. I know that's tough to swallow, but it is the reality.

Be polite and patient. He may just reward it with a killer product.

[FilterFunk]

Originally Posted by warwick.hoy

Okay,...are we talking about boutique effects or boutique basses here? Customer service should be considered equally but turn around times and money spent I think would come into to play.

I'm talking about boutique effects. The one I'm still waiting for is a big filter unit. The builder quoted a 4-week build time. I'm cool with it being longer than that, but at least keep me updated, especially if you're holding a lot of my money!

[FilterFunk]

I agree with being "polite and patient." That's always been my policy. I guess I'll just have to wait, and hope for the best! I consider it a lesson learned.

[Bassmike62]

Not sure if it qualifies for this thread, but I've recently had a pedal modded from a guy that builds gear (amps & pedalboards, for the most). It's been 3 months since I've dropped the pedal off. Spoke to him once: "Soon !" he said. Spoked to a guy I know that had a board custom-built. About the same feedback.

My take on this : these guys are artists as well, so you can't rush their creativity. Slackers ? Not disagreeing with it.

Whatcha gonna do, scream at the guy who has your gear ? So patience is it for me (for now), and biffing the guy off my Christmas cards list.

[kenstee]

If you want to deal with a real straight-up, no BS effect/pedal builder check out this guy...http://this1smyne.com/pedals.html. Dan is fantastic! He is the total opposite of what you might think of builders based on this thread. Has tons of very satisfied customers on TheGearPage and HarmonyCentral. I recently had him make me a smaller, much more compact version of the Boss FS-6. Turned it around in one day. Amazing quality and great price to boot. Next, going to have him mod some of my pedals. Very cool, together guy. Tell him I sent you.