How to simulate other instruments? (newbee to effects)

[René_Julien]

Okay, I played bass for 9 years now. But I am new to effects. So far I only used some drive pedals and EQ.

I am not in a band anymore, I play in private. I enjoy practicing some more difficult stuff. (Like classical music)

Now I am looking for some effects to simulate some common acoustic instruments.
For example: when I (try) to play Toccata & Fuga, it might be a nice touch to have a sort of organ-like effect blended with the sound I already have.
Or violin, brass,...
COSM or synth like stuff??

Sorry, I'm a total newbee when it comes to stuff like this.
What is out there that can do sort of what I desire.

I was thinking of the Roland V-Bass system. I heard a sample on the Roland site of a bass replicating a banjo.


Does anyone have any experience with this ?
The Virtual Bass or an other system.

note: It may totally mess up my bass signal, because if I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna split up my signal.
A parallel circuit (srry don't know the jargon, is this what it's called?) alongside the set-up I have now.
Perhaps even a seperate amp. My original bass sound about 90% and an effected or COSM circuit being 10% part of the mix.

Does anyone have experience with this?
Or if not, if anyone has a clue about what I am talking, please, some guidance.

Thanks in advance.

(and if you made it to here, thanks for reading my long elobarate questions)

[JanusZarate]

Wait, doesn't the V-Bass system require you to mount one of their special MIDI pickups onto your bass, anyway? Or am I thinking of another Roland product...

Anyhow... there are some effects pedals that cover parts of the territory you're seeking. The EHX POG, for example, is the ultimate choice for organ sounds coming out of your bass, and you can add in as much clean signal as you'd like.

For violin, you can somewhat approach that with a volume pedal or an envelope-triggered volume swell pedal (a la Boss Slow Gear). For brass... well, years ago, someone attempted that with a pedal called a Maestro Brassmaster.

Do a quick search, and you'll see where that one went... especially if you know anything about industrial music.

[René_Julien]

Originally Posted by MysticBoo

Wait, doesn't the V-Bass system require you to mount one of their special MIDI pickups onto your bass, anyway? Or am I thinking of another Roland product...

Anyhow... there are some effects pedals that cover parts of the territory you're seeking. The EHX POG, for example, is the ultimate choice for organ sounds coming out of your bass, and you can add in as much clean signal as you'd like.

For violin, you can somewhat approach that with a volume pedal or an envelope-triggered volume swell pedal (a la Boss Slow Gear). For brass... well, years ago, someone attempted that with a pedal called a Maestro Brassmaster.

Do a quick search, and you'll see where that one went... especially if you know anything about industrial music.

Ah, the helpfull MysticBoo.
Thanks for the quick response man.

Yeah, I thought about using that MIDI pickup.
But remember I'm a total newbee about all this electronic stuff. So directions to threads are that can help me are welcome.
I did a search here on the forum, but for me it's like looking for a needle in a pile of hay.

I'll research some on the things you suggested.
But I am looking for a all-in-one device if possible.
And wanna work with realtime parallel circuit. Two amps (or a monitor system) or a mixer to one amp.

[bkbirge]

For "all in one" and "acoustic instruments", you'll probably need the Roland (or similar) hex pickup and a box to convert it to midi signals, then take those midi signals to a sound generator box that has the sounds you want such as an E-my proteus 2000 or Roland JV-1010. There are caveats with this setup but it sounds like what you want. The POG does do a nice organ sound, I use mine often, but it won't do trumpet or piano or banjo, or screaming babies, etc.

[Moe45673]

It sounds like you'll also want a looper of some kind, so you can record something and it will loop infinitely. Then you can play over that (and even do overdubs). This will negate your desire for a parallel splitter.

My recommendation for a first looper is the Boss RC-2. 16 minutes of recording time is way more than anyone should need.

Actually, your specific needs aside, every musician should use a looper. Greatest practise tool since the metronome.

[René_Julien]

Originally Posted by bkbirge

For "all in one" and "acoustic instruments", you'll probably need the Roland (or similar) hex pickup and a box to convert it to midi signals, then take those midi signals to a sound generator box that has the sounds you want such as an E-my proteus 2000 or Roland JV-1010. There are caveats with this setup but it sounds like what you want. The POG does do a nice organ sound, I use mine often, but it won't do trumpet or piano or banjo, or screaming babies, etc.

Okay, so that's what I'm after then.
MIDI - sound generator box.
(remember total noob here, I'm coming over to the artificial sound side)

I searched some info on the Roland stuff.
Would the GR-20 Guitar synthesizer work with the bass hex pickup?
I assume such a device would solve my needs.
But with all that many products available in the world of MIDI, synths, sound generators,... I can't see clearly what is what and what can be used.

Thanks for the responses.

[bkbirge]

Originally Posted by C'thulhu

Would the GR-20 Guitar synthesizer work with the bass hex pickup?

I use a GI-20 interface with a GK-2b pickup and it works great. I think the main difference between the GI-20 and the GR-20 is that the GR-20 has built in sounds. You'll need to download an update to the GR-20 that makes it compatible with bass I believe.

[René_Julien]

Originally Posted by bkbirge

I use a GI-20 interface with a GK-2b pickup and it works great. I think the main difference between the GI-20 and the GR-20 is that the GR-20 has built in sounds. You'll need to download an update to the GR-20 that makes it compatible with bass I believe.

I researched about the GR-20 on the Roland website. And like you said you have to download an update for bass.
So that is propably what I need.

So if I get this correct: the GR-20 is a MIDI-interface + sound generator. And I basicly need no more than some sort of monitor or amp behind it. (or a mixer to mix it with my original bass signal and go to my bassamp, but is that a good idea?)

And bkbirge, you use the GI-20, that's only an interface wich converts the GK-signal to MIDI signals... ???
Is that correct?
What do you use it fore then? Synth-module, computer, multi-effects???

Sorry if my questions seem ignorant. But I don't know any of this stuff.

Thanks.

[cheapbasslovin]

I can only vouch for the mixing of one signal with another and then putting it into your bass amp.

It's not a bad idea. If you are going this route, try to mix the two sounds and then put them into one amp (if only for portability's sake). If you don't like the sound then consider using two amps.

I believe that the method used to add sounds to a midi interface is to add a midi sound card or patch to your interface. I researched this a while back but only got so far as the $1000 price tag I kept running into, so you may want to wait for a slightly more knowledgeable source to chime in after me.

[bkbirge]

Originally Posted by C'thulhu

So if I get this correct: the GR-20 is a MIDI-interface + sound generator. And I basicly need no more than some sort of monitor or amp behind it. (or a mixer to mix it with my original bass signal and go to my bassamp, but is that a good idea?)

And bkbirge, you use the GI-20, that's only an interface wich converts the GK-signal to MIDI signals... ???
Is that correct?
What do you use it fore then? Synth-module, computer, multi-effects???

Yes the GI-20 takes the GK hex pickup output and converts it to MIDI signals. That's all it does. To make sounds I then send the MIDI signal (via a MIDI cable) to my outboard synths. I am using a Waldorf XT and Proteus 2000 mainly but also use some softsynths and samplers on my laptop along with sequencing. I have a little keyboard amp that I use for the synth sounds and then I keep my bass amp just for bass but there's no rule book that says you have to do it this way. Summing them into one amp is fine too, I just kind of like the stereo spread I can get when I use 2 amps. I have yet to lug this stuff around to a gig but when I do I'll use only one amp.

You could do everything I described above with the GR-20 (assuming I read the website description right) as well as having built in sounds so you don't *need* an external sound box. I just have a lot of sound boxes from years of playing keys so for my purposes I didn't really need another sound source, just a way to make my bass control what I have.

[ga_edwards]

If you don't mind gigging with a laptop you could try this:
http://downloads.zdnet.co.uk/0,10000...052920s,00.htm

Never tried it myself, but might be worth a download, it says it works for bass. Of course, it could turn out to be crap!

[René_Julien]

Originally Posted by bkbirge

Yes the GI-20 takes the GK hex pickup output and converts it to MIDI signals. That's all it does. To make sounds I then send the MIDI signal (via a MIDI cable) to my outboard synths. I am using a Waldorf XT and Proteus 2000 mainly but also use some softsynths and samplers on my laptop along with sequencing. I have a little keyboard amp that I use for the synth sounds and then I keep my bass amp just for bass but there's no rule book that says you have to do it this way. Summing them into one amp is fine too, I just kind of like the stereo spread I can get when I use 2 amps. I have yet to lug this stuff around to a gig but when I do I'll use only one amp.

You could do everything I described above with the GR-20 (assuming I read the website description right) as well as having built in sounds so you don't *need* an external sound box. I just have a lot of sound boxes from years of playing keys so for my purposes I didn't really need another sound source, just a way to make my bass control what I have.

Oh, so that explains why you just need an interface. You also play keyboard.
(Nothing against it, my #1 musical influence is a keyboardplayer. Arjen Anthony Lucassen, a dutch guy. His projects are Ayreon, Ambeon and Star One. Perhaps you know him? The genre is progressive rock with a bit of metal.)
Anyway...

In my case that GR-20 will do. Or Roland even has a GR-33 wich can do more I assume. I looked around and used I could get one at a reasonable price.


But I'm also playing with the idea of seperate amplification for the synth. Because I'm a bit weary about what it will do to my original bass signal and bass amp.

What would you recommend for amplification? A keyboard amp? Other possibilities?


Thank you for your expertise and insights.
I'm gonna do it now. I'm getting a GR-20 or GR-33.
Unless between now and when I buy one someone comes up with a good argument to steer clear of MIDI and synths.

[René_Julien]

Originally Posted by ga_edwards

If you don't mind gigging with a laptop you could try this:
http://downloads.zdnet.co.uk/0,10000...052920s,00.htm

Never tried it myself, but might be worth a download, it says it works for bass. Of course, it could turn out to be crap!

Thanks for the suggestion. But I don't think I could be bothered with setting up a program on my computer each time I want to play.

Just a simple device on the floor would be the wise choice in my case.

I do however have a Mini Mac with Garage Band on it. Once I was considering to buy a USB keyboard for it. Just for learning keys and composing stuf, wich I later play on the bass.

I don't gig, I'm not in a band anymore. It's just something I want to play around with in private practice.

In the future when I perhaps play in another bad, I will not likely use MIDI&synths.
Unless they would be atracted to the idea.

[bkbirge]

Originally Posted by C'thulhu

In my case that GR-20 will do. Or Roland even has a GR-33 wich can do more I assume. I looked around and used I could get one at a reasonable price.

What would you recommend for amplification? A keyboard amp? Other possibilities?

Make sure you search online for reviews and opinions about the differences between the 2 units. I don't really know about them but I do know that the latest product release isn't always the greatest.

As far as amps, your guess is as good as mine. Any reasonably full range setup will do 'cause the synths can get reach really high and really low pitch.

[baalroo]

Behringer actually makes pretty decent keyboard amps at a good price, the guitarist in my band uses a small behringer 1x12 combo amp for his insanely effected side chain that routes through his laptop running guitar rig and then a mini kaoss pad and it works great for it.