How to solve: Fuzz/Synth getting buried in mix

[Hollow Man]

I've been using my board with great success in my disco band, but I've come to decide that I'm not getting the results I want with my fuzz and synth effects. More specifically, when I play my SFX Micro Bass Fuzz alone or in the effects loop of my 3Leaf Groove Regulator, I lose a lot of my ability to cut through the mix. For reference, I use a Nordstrand Jazz bass, a Markbass LMIII or F500, and a Berg AE212 or 410 (bass is run passive and amp is set roughly flat). My clean tone cuts through wonderfully, but my effects sometimes get lost. Our mix can get a little dense, but it's not so heavy or busy that I should have any trouble getting through. Also, to be clear, I don't think that there is a 'problem' per se with either of the pedals I mentioned; I think that it is somewhat in the nature of fuzzes and filters to lose a bit of cut (I've played with several of both), so I'm not interested in replacing them; I'm more concerned with solutions.

Obviously, I could crank my mids at the amp, but that'll throw my clean tone out of whack, and I don't want to have to make trips to the pedalboard and the amp when I need to hit an effected passage. My primary belief is that adding something like the Electronix Submarine or (even better) an SFX Ultra Tone to help shape my pedalboard tone is the key.

What do you all think? Would a Submarine/Ultra Tone-like pedal help, or do I need to move to something like a graphic EQ?

[pmaraziti]

I am in kind of same place, having a volume on my fuzz, I kind of bypass the issue boosting the fuzz volume a bit, but I am not sure if there's a better solution. Let me subscribe!

[rratajski]

Boost mids before your effects with an eq pedal.
The submarine cuts mids a bit.

[Hollow Man]

I've done that with the various distortions I've run in the GR2's effects loop, and it did help. But at some point, the fuzz starts to overwhelm the filter sound, and it starts to become somewhat counter-productive.

I believe that having more midrange in the overall effected tone is the key. I guess what I'm looking for is twofold: one, do folks concur that more mids equals more cut (in this case), and two, would something like one of the pedals that I described above get me where I want to be? I loathe to move to a graphic EQ, and I like my clean tone too much to start goosing or cutting bands at the amp.

[Hollow Man]

Originally Posted by rratajski

Boost mids before your effects with an eq pedal.
The submarine cuts mids a bit.

I know the Submarine can be set to cut mids, but if I'm not mistaken, can't it also be set to boost mids while rolling off lows and highs a bit?

[khabalah]

get an iron ether fuzz and flip the voice switch

[Hollow Man]

Originally Posted by khabalah

get an iron ether fuzz and flip the voice switch

Actually, I just sold my Oxide. I liked it very much, but it wasn't quite the right sound, and I needed the cash more than having an excellent weapon for a battle I'm not fighting.

To be honest though, I didn't notice the Oxide cutting through any better when I tried it in practice under the same conditions. Admittedly, I didn't spend much time fiddling with its settings, and it certainly is more versatile than my SFX Micro Fuzz (my fuzz of choice).

[gastric]

Have some recordings to share to illustrate the issue?

On my end I often find synth/octave patches push too much lows/sub-lows, thus makes you turn down the overall volume. Requires EQ.

[rratajski]

Originally Posted by Hollow Man

I know the Submarine can be set to cut mids, but if I'm not mistaken, can't it also be set to boost mids while rolling off lows and highs a bit?

I'm pretty sure there's no mid boost in tone settings. I could be wrong.
What about putting an eq and your fuzz/synth in a tb loop so you can turn them off together, preserving your cleans? Tb loops can be made in small boxes and don't require power.

[Jared Lash]

You may have already tried this, but I've often found the simplest answer is just to crank the fuzz or synth pedal's volume so that it is much louder than your clean tone.

When practicing or playing around at home it seems to make the most sense to have pedals set to unity gain. But in a mix a substantial volume boost really helps. My fuzz settings seem WAY too loud when playing alone but I've found that's what is needed for a band setting.

Just my two cents.

[plangentmusic]

Fuzz blends. Cleanliness cuts. In a disco band I'd want the bass to be as clean as possible.

[Calebmundy]

I definitely agree on cranking the fuzz-that seems to solve most of the lack-of-low-end or punch problems I used to have with my plain old Big Muff. I am still working out my new MXR filter. Some of the sweeps hit too hard.

[Smallequestrian]

Originally Posted by Jared Lash

You may have already tried this, but I've often found the simplest answer is just to crank the fuzz or synth pedal's volume so that it is much louder than your clean tone.

When practicing or playing around at home it seems to make the most sense to have pedals set to unity gain. But in a mix a substantial volume boost really helps. My fuzz settings seem WAY too loud when playing alone but I've found that's what is needed for a band setting.

Just my two cents.

I agree with this. I start off one of our songs with a solo'd fuzz bass line and it always strikes me as really effing loud, but as soon as the rest of the band joins in, it slides neatly into the mix. If I start it off at a more "acceptatble" level though my drummer will stop (if we're in rehearsal) after a couple of measure because she can't here me.

[James Judson]

Only time effects cuts thru the mix is when EVERYONE else is not playing. Guitards (especially ones using Marshal stacks) like to use lots of distortion that generates tons of harmonics and overtones. I have tried many effects on bass and I love them all but when it comes to cutting in the mix it doesn't happen. I say play clean all night but show off your effects in that bass solo. If you want compliments on your tone, focus on that kick drum.

[plangentmusic]

Originally Posted by James Judson

Only time effects cuts thru the mix is when EVERYONE else is not playing. Guitards (especially ones using Marshal stacks) like to use lots of distortion that generates tons of harmonics and overtones. I have tried many effects on bass and I love them all but when it comes to cutting in the mix it doesn't happen. I say play clean all night but show off your effects in that bass solo. If you want compliments on your tone, focus on that kick drum.

A guitar , being a higher pitched instrument, can capture more color. And since it plays chords, some overdrive fills it out. All of those things don't apply to bass.

And don't say "guitards." It makes bass players sound dumb.

[Gearhead17]

Originally Posted by Smallequestrian

I agree with this. I start off one of our songs with a solo'd fuzz bass line and it always strikes me as really effing loud, but as soon as the rest of the band joins in, it slides neatly into the mix. If I start it off at a more "acceptatble" level though my drummer will stop (if we're in rehearsal) after a couple of measure because she can't hear me.

This is very true. A trick I do is place a Boss GEB7 after my Tech 21 XXL Bass Edition. I severaly cut the high end above 3.5khz (that's where my DNA cab crosses over to the tweeter). I then do a boost at about 800hz (which is boosting 600hz to around 3khz. This allows my bass tone to get incredibly raunchy sounding and REALLY cut through. I also have a blend pedal with the raunchy tone and my clean tone - sending the combined signal to the soundguy and my rig simultaneously. When I did not do this, I could barely hear my distorted tone because of my two guitarists and consequently would constantly crank the pedal. Excessive cranking lead to the pedal creating awful feedback sounds through my rig and the PA.

Most Fuzz pedals lack midrange, the Tech 21 XXL Bass is not the best fuzz/distortion out there, but it does keep a lot more midrange in the overall tone.

Honestly, you have to add an EQ to the distortion pedal chain to "shape the distortion" and actually hear yourself when you use it. Otherwise, you are at the mercy of the pedal's inherent tone settings - could be great or terrible. For me though, my raunchy tone can be turned down so I do not bury my bandmates, but still hear myself really well.

[Quimbymeat]

use a line selector for one channel, that way the synth is true bypass and you can control the volume

[DosiYanarchy]

The MicroFuzz has a tasty mid-scoop, this is why it sounds like it does - I've had a mid-boosted mod on a similar pedal (an SFX -modded Colorsound Bass Fuzz) and to me it never sounded as good as it did stock, this is nothing against the quality of the mod, just the fact that if you like how the MicroFuzz sounds, the scoop is inherent in it.

I mid-boost everything, the MicroFuzz and the Colorsound Bass fuzz are the only times that i've allowed the scoop.

Now I've got Max @ [SFX] building me something very special, its not just a MicroFuzz - its many things - for me a dream come true - but it does have a Blend and a Mid switch, so i'll pick which turns out better in the mix for me.

for me, the Microfuzz has an epic low end all the way up to 3 o'clock on the tone control, so while the scoop is always there, try experiment with the volume and tone controls to see if a louder volume with a higher tone helps you 'cut' more, just as the learned gentlement above suggested.

PS: whilst i've never tried Spencer's great Groove Regulators, i had exactly the same problem with fuzz in the loop of a Qtron+.



for a quick fix, its try the MicroFuzz with an LS2 Line Selector as mentioned above (the only reason I suggest this above the EQ idea is that if you use the Fuzz on its own, you have to turn the EQ on and off at the same time as the fuzz, because you already established that you're happy with your clean tone)

[JMDT]

Originally Posted by Hollow Man

I know the Submarine can be set to cut mids, but if I'm not mistaken, can't it also be set to boost mids while rolling off lows and highs a bit?

The Submarine designer has switches to allow for both a low and high mid bost if you want them. I run it slightly on the bassy side with the low mid boost on and it definately adds some mustard running into my mammoth clone and messdrive.

As others have said, increasing the volume of the fuzz box may also help here.

[Eric!]

Talk to the band, work out your whole EQ as a band, because really, you all are working toward a collective sound; having settings just how YOU like them mixed with how THEY like their settings don't just naturally work out most of the time