How useful are LFOs with Envelope Filters?

rsmith601 · #1 12-09-2011, 09:15 AM

Dear Talkbass,
We have done a BEF with no LFO and a BEF Pro with a full featured LFO. We are thinking about a future BEF product and are wondering if adding in the complexity is worth it. As always, we are very curious what the TB community thinks.

For those of you who have a BEF Pro, how much do you use the LFO?

Thank you!

Basehead · #2 12-09-2011, 11:03 AM

Lots! 4 of my six presets are using a Midi-synched LFO, using differing Q values, waveshapes, etc...

bongomania · #3 12-09-2011, 11:15 AM

I voted "go crazy with it or don't bother". IMO the only people who would give a rat's patootie about an LFO in there are the people that want fully tweakable controls on everything. Like me.

CopperheadLXXIX · #4 12-09-2011, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bongomania

I voted "go crazy with it or don't bother". IMO the only people who would give a rat's patootie about an LFO in there are the people that want fully tweakable controls on everything. Like me.

+1. I would find the LFO mostly useless if it didn't have things like tap tempo and different wave shapes. I only use the LFO function on 3 of the saved presets I have so far (the others are a wah setting, and a simple static LPF), but without features like that I probably wouldn't use/like it nearly as much as I do.

topo morto · #5 12-09-2011, 01:07 PM

The one thing I DON'T want on a filter is.... an envelope!

I want foot control to sweep it, and an LFO would be nice.

wolffman · #6 12-09-2011, 01:12 PM

IMO there are two groups of people here- one group that will use them for the classic filter sound and another group who can will utilize both classic and dubsteppy/phaser esque/quasi tremolo sounds. If you're going to go for lfo's it then the pedal needs to have full control. However for my uses there are changes I would tweak the operation of some functions from the current model.

topo morto · #7 12-09-2011, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolffman

IMO there are two groups of people here- one group that will use them for the classic filter sound and another group who can will utilize both classic and dubsteppy/phaser esque/quasi tremolo sounds. If you're going to go for lfo's it then the pedal needs to have full control. However for my uses there are changes I would tweak the operation of some functions from the current model.

I don't want the classic sound.... sounding like a duck = bad.

The Lurker · #8 12-09-2011, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by topo morto

I don't want the classic sound.... sounding like a duck = bad.

Very true.... but sounding like a psychedelic duck the size of Godzilla? That can be a good thing.

topo morto · #9 12-09-2011, 01:32 PM

I wouldn't mind so much having env follow as a parameter that could be assigned to various targets... like LFO speed/depth, for example, as well as cutoff freq...

CliffD · #10 12-09-2011, 01:41 PM

Your guys stuff seems to be geared towards a digital sound, why not give those folks all the crazy LFO stuff? I say do it.

Plays_For_Dog · #11 12-09-2011, 01:42 PM

Roger,

I saw the post on Facebook too. You must have something big in the works. Can you fill us in on what it is so we can start the hype?

**bassman314** · #12 12-09-2011, 01:55 PM

I answered "Simple Basic LFO".

I guess I should quantify this. I have never used the BEF or BEF Pro, but I am highly interested in either pedal.

If a new pedal were to be an even more uber version of the BEF Pro, including the ability to save presets, then I say more is better.

If the new pedal were to be more along the lines of the BEF, i.e., no ability to save presets, then I would argue against an overly-complex interface to facilitate live-use of the pedal.

mambo4 · #13 12-09-2011, 02:29 PM

I believe the any LFO needs to be match-able to the tempo of the music, by some method. Tap tempo probably would be the bets solution. Or Midi clock if you play with electronic gear

waveman · #14 12-09-2011, 03:15 PM

I like features. BTW, any chance you guys could do a preset lfo pedal to control expression for other pedals... kinda like a cross between the Moog MP 201 and copilot broadcast... allow the hand control or external expression pedal to control value for a set parameter?

**bassman314** · #15 12-09-2011, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mambo4

I believe the any LFO needs to be match-able to the tempo of the music, by some method. Tap tempo probably would be the bets solution. Or Midi clock if you play with electronic gear

Tap Tempo, with the ability to modify the value for either double time and/or half-time sections of songs

Christ Groove · #16 12-09-2011, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rsmith601

Dear Talkbass,
We have done a BEF with no LFO and a BEF Pro with a full featured LFO. We are thinking about a future BEF product and are wondering if adding in the complexity is worth it. As always, we are very curious what the TB community thinks.

For those of you who have a BEF Pro, how much do you use the LFO?

Thank you!

Hi Roger,
It is worth it, I bought the Pro in part because of LFO. In my music, I like options and the inspiration that comes from new sounds. However, I would love it even more if I could approach the pedal from different mindsets. Thinking that next gen opportunity is to develop the UI one click up and one click down. At this point it's usability and not capability that I most would benefit from.

Simple mindset, if I have a pickup gig and don’t have time to dial in my settings (like you might in the studio), I’d benefit from having good factory presets as a default (or to use as a basis for tweaking my own sounds).

Busy mindset, I need to be able to tweak on the fly (during the gig). I don’t usually remember what the knob positions were when I set up the programs, makes live adjustments difficult. I would benefit from knob position feedback. Added benefit of variables feedback is shortening the learning curve on operating the pedal as you could bounce back and forth between programs and understand how they are differnt.

Versatility mindset, I could use the pedal on even more songs if I had more memory positions and a way to store them on a PC (and edit).

Get along mindset, Playing with others who also have tempo adjustments (including loops, clicks, and other players), I’d love to have my pedals synchronized (Bluetooth, Wi-Fi, other).

Thanks for the toys, keep em coming!

fr35h · #17 12-10-2011, 12:14 AM

I would really like a strip of, say, four footswitches to control lfo speed. This would allow quarter and eighth note triplets as well eighth and sixteenth (or quarter) notes to be available at any time. Combine that with a hot hand and you have all the control you'd ever need.

rsmith601 · #18 12-10-2011, 07:38 AM

This thread has been incredibly valuable to us. Thank you.

We are in the process of creating Soundblox 2: a full line of new pedals with the following objectives:
-2 presets
-as small a footprint as possible
-metal housing
-relay true bypass and buffered bypass
-as many features as possible, but keep the UI simple
-flexible EXP, Hot Hand, MIDI i/o

The LFO is a nice feature, but it makes the UI really ugly really quickly. Based on the feedback, the LFO is not likely going to make the cut and remain a key feature of the Pro.

I will post some pictures of the SB2 housing in the SA Club on Monday. It is quite cool looking.

This forum causes us to be hyper-aware of the needs of bass players as we develop new products. Your collective voice is VERY strong in how we deploy our resources as a company. You allow us (and a couple other good pedal folks) to be part of your discussions and then we make better bass pedals because of it. It is a real win-win. Again, my sincere thanks.

Kwesi · #19 12-10-2011, 10:58 AM

I'm with the go big or go home crowd, preferably go big

. I had a BEF Pro for about 4 seconds but it was just too big to fit on my board. I would LOVE to have some smaller variation of the BEF to put on there while still having an LFO to use.

I'm loving the Soundblox 2 platform for sure. Apart from the BEF which other pedals will be getting "upgraded?" Either way, this sounds awesome. I just hope that the jacks are all still top mounted!

CopperheadLXXIX · #20 12-10-2011, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rsmith601

This thread has been incredibly valuable to us. Thank you.

We are in the process of creating Soundblox 2: a full line of new pedals with the following objectives:
-2 presets
-as small a footprint as possible
-metal housing
-relay true bypass and buffered bypass
-as many features as possible, but keep the UI simple
-flexible EXP, Hot Hand, MIDI i/o

The LFO is a nice feature, but it makes the UI really ugly really quickly. Based on the feedback, the LFO is not likely going to make the cut and remain a key feature of the Pro.

I will post some pictures of the SB2 housing in the SA Club on Monday. It is quite cool looking.

This forum causes us to be hyper-aware of the needs of bass players as we develop new products. Your collective voice is VERY strong in how we deploy our resources as a company. You allow us (and a couple other good pedal folks) to be part of your discussions and then we make better bass pedals because of it. It is a real win-win. Again, my sincere thanks.

Are these going to be completely replacing the regular Soundblox pedals (nonpro)?