I need pedal board help!! What pedals and what order

[ogcaleb]

I know what you're all gonna tell me, just go to a guitar center and play them but I don't have anything like that within 1.5 hours of my house. My plan is to search for some used ones and to musiciansfriend the rest and send them back if i don't like them.

I'm building my first pedalboard. I was a guitar player for about 10 years before i switched over to bass, and i don't have much experience when it comes to bass effects.

I'm going to list my questions by group.

1. Tuner - have a boss tu-3, no questions.
2. Distortion - played through my friends big muff bass and loved it. pretty set on picking one up, but I haven't purchased it yet.
3. Synth - i can't find a single synth that doesn't have extremely mixed reviews. Boss SYB-5 only got a 3.5 and is $160.. is it really worth it? I've heard terrible things about the Ibanez SB7, and i don't know of any other good, designated synth pedals.
4. Delay - Digitech Digidelay? Boss DD-6? Boss DD-20? Behringer DD-100? Something else?
5. Wah - Crybaby? Morley? Bootzilla? Vox?
6. Chorus - Boss CEB-3? T-rex Sweeper? Digitech XBC?
7. Compression - Digitech XBS? Boss LMB-3? Markbass? Aguilar?
8. EQ - Do I even need one? Is it worth it to have one in my chain when I can just adjust via my head? If so should I get
9. Volume - Morley or Ernie Ball?
10. Loop - Can anyone compare Boss RC-2 to RC-20XL? Boomerang?

Every professional I've seen has a tech 21 Sansamp, but from what I've seen they're for enhancing bass sound to get a good tube tone. I play a Pbass American Standard through Monster Rock cables into an Ampeg Classic and Ampeg 4x10 cab... so I don't think I'm lacking a tube tone. Do I need one?

What order should I put them in?

I'm really lost as far as bass effects are concerned but I luckboxed my way into a salary paying gig playing for this band and I want to put some of it towards improving our sound.

[Pandafist]

1. yup
2. Good enough, but I prefer the real Green Russian. And while different sounding, definitely check into the B:assmaster
3. Digitech is a good place to start, but I like the Bass Microsynth by EHX best.
4. Get something w/ tap tempo. I rec the SMMH by EHX. Really flexible unit. But I'd also get an analog if I were you. Just cause, and whatever pops up first. Compare, go from there.
5. You don't need one. Get a filter (moog if you can afford it) with expression pedal instead and thank me later.
6. Good question. I'm still hunting for the ultimate bass chorus. Lots of opinions out there.
7. See #6
8. No, you don't.
9. Any will do. Just get, or add, true bypass.
10. I have the RC20, and loops degrade over time. At least they do in mine, so I can't recommend them in good conscience. The SMMH has a looper built in, so that's another reason to get one IMO.


If you have a Classic, you have ZERO need for pre of any sort. And not all professionals play Tech 21 or other Sansamp products.
Some even dislike them... ahem.
(SFT stands for sansamp f-n terminated)

[Pandafist]

Oh yeah - order


bass > tuner > distortion > synth > filter > delay/chorus (interchangeable) > compression > amp

put the volume wherever you want it

[Jared Lash]

You'll probably get the most useful responses if you give a bit more information.

I'd recommend a different fuzzes for someone playing doom than for a funk player.

I'd recommend a different delay to the guy who wants analog vs the guy who wants a tap tempo digital model.

And I'd have very different recommendations for someone with a tight budget than the person who says money is no object.

The first question I have is why the effects types you listed are the ones you want. Outside of the EQ (which you question needing) do you need them all?

Otherwise you'll just get people listing their favorites for each type you're asking about.

[Pandafist]

Originally Posted by Jared Lash

Otherwise you'll just get people listing their favorites for each type you're asking about.

LOL. Correct.
See my post for proof (and good taste).

[warwick.hoy]

Originally Posted by ogcaleb

I know what you're all gonna tell me, just go to a guitar center and play them but I don't have anything like that within 1.5 hours of my house. My plan is to search for some used ones and to musiciansfriend the rest and send them back if i don't like them.

I'm building my first pedalboard. I was a guitar player for about 10 years before i switched over to bass, and i don't have much experience when it comes to bass effects. Bass effects may be guitar effects that are "optimized" for bass or just designed specifically for bass. Doesn't mean "guitar" effects won't work or sound fine.

I'm going to list my questions by group.

1. Tuner - have a boss tu-3, no questions.
2. Distortion - played through my friends big muff bass and loved it. pretty set on picking one up, but I haven't purchased it yet. Good Choice, although you'd be picking up not simply a distortion but a Fuzz. I'd avoid the Bass Big Muff (some would tell you to check it out). There are a ton of boutique pedals that are clones of the Muff circuit with additional controls or improvements of the circuit itself. Earthbound Audio Supercollider is one. The Musket is another.
3. Synth - i can't find a single synth that doesn't have extremely mixed reviews. Boss SYB-5 only got a 3.5 and is $160.. is it really worth it? No I've heard terrible things about the Ibanez SB7, and i don't know of any other good, designated synth pedals. Digitech Bass Synth Wah, Electro Harmonix Bass Microsynth, there are others but those would be good starters to research
4. Delay - Digitech Digidelay? Boss DD-6? Boss DD-20? Behringer DD-100? Something else?
5. Wah - Crybaby? Morley? Bootzilla? Vox?
6. Chorus - Boss CEB-3? T-rex Sweeper? Digitech XBC?
I'm not very qualified to comment on these. I will say I much prefer envelope filters over Wah pedals.
7. Compression - Digitech XBS? Boss LMB-3? Markbass? Aguilar?
Read TBer Bongomania's reviews at: http://www.ovnilab.com The Boss LMB-3 is not a bad limiter. I'm currently wanting the FEA Labs Dual Band Opti Comp, but it's 350 bucks
8. EQ - Do I even need one? Is it worth it to have one in my chain when I can just adjust via my head? If so should I get Just another tone shaper. They serve a purpose and can come in handy if your head doesn't have an EQ or with more sophisticated setups that involve line switching,...loops (not musical loops but signal chain loops) if you want a different sound combined with different FX. They can be a good tool to have
9. Volume - Morley or Ernie Ball? Ernie Ball
10. Loop - Can anyone compare Boss RC-2 to RC-20XL? Boomerang?

Every professional I've seen has a tech 21 Sansamp, but from what I've seen they're for enhancing bass sound to get a good tube tone. I play a Pbass American Standard through Monster Rock cables into an Ampeg Classic and Ampeg 4x10 cab... so I don't think I'm lacking a tube tone. Do I need one? Sansamp = Tube Emulation, more specifically it's trying to sound like an Ampeg (The VT Bass even moreso) ,...redundant if you already have an SVT. You probably see a lot of pros using them for their DI. It's a good DI, but there are others out there that don't have all the additional features

What order should I put them in? There is a general formula laid out in the sticky at the top of the FX Subforum but it's all about experimentation.

I'm really lost as far as bass effects are concerned but I luckboxed my way into a salary paying gig playing for this band and I want to put some of it towards improving our sound.

Specific Replies in red. There really is no mystery surrounding bass FX. Perhaps less bass players use FX or some types of FX are more prevalent for bass or used differently for bass but it really comes down to trusting your ear and knowing what you need to get the sound in your head to come through your speakers.

If you want improved tone for your band I suggest using whatever EQ you have and dial it in to sit in the mix. This is going to most inevitably lead to boosting hi mids and cutting low mids. Compression can help but isn't a necessity. Does this band have a sound guy? If so meet up with him and discuss this. Tell him you want to use FX and he should be able to help guide you through the process.

[Dapper_Bandit]

It would probably be easier for people to recommend gear if they knew what music you're going to be playing. Because if it's a classic rock band, the big muff will be better suited than a DD-20.

However, I would recommend the DD-20 as I find it to be pretty easy to use and with plenty of good sounds on tap. I like my boomerang because it's very easy to create loops on the fly. The quality does degrade after your 4th or 5th layer but that's the price you pay.

[metalinthenight]

Originally Posted by ogcaleb

I'm building my first pedalboard. I was a guitar player for about 10 years before i switched over to bass, and i don't have much experience when it comes to bass effects.

1. Yup...that'll do
2. Distortion vs. Overdrive vs. Fuzz is something super subjective to your needs/tastes and/or wants. I'm still trying to find mine, and I've been through alot of units.

3. IMO, alot of the lower end (price range) synth pedals get mixed reviews because the synth snobs will generally prefer analog pricier effects (most sound better than digital too IMO) than the lower cost ones. That doesn't mean you can't get good tones out of them. I liked the EHX bass microsynth alot. Great sound, flexible.

4. Delay - I really liked the Boss DD-7 and used it for a while until I got my SMMwH. Saved a step loading in (didn't have to connect the tap tempo) and I think it sounds better. Both do loops though, which is something to consider...the SMMwH has presets.....

5. Wah is all about taste preference. I don't care for them personally.

6. Chorus - A lot of people like the AnalogMan chorus pedals and the hardwire series from digitech gets alot of love too.

7. Compression - ask Bongomania here on TB, or better yet, read his FAQ.

8. EQ - You don't need one. It just depends on if you want to switch your EQ mid song (bump in the bass or low mids for example). I've used them as an boost with EQ as well with great results.

9. Volume - I like the Ernie ball because its smaller. Most of the volume swell comes in the last third of the sweep though, which is something to keep in mind.

10. Loop - The RC-20xl had more features and loop time, if you feel like you are going to use them, then its worth it. If not, the RC-2 or the looper on your delay (DD-7, SMMwH, others) will fulfill that role nicely.

You definitely do not need a SansAmp. I think they are neat for what they do, but definitely not imperative. Most like the BDDI for the DI and some dirt for their live sound, and they do sound great in the studio, but its just personal opinion.

What order should I put them in?

There are plenty of interesting reads in the FAQ section at the main page of the effects forum, but I like to put them in this general order:

1. Octavers (could go after distortions, but some don't track as well)/ Signal Shaping (preamps...sometimes at the end of the chain as well)
2. Overdrive/Distortion
3. Fuzz
4. Synthy (could go before fuzz/od/distortion as well)
5. Reverb/Phaser/Tremolo
6. Delay
7. Looper

The main thing is just to mix and match and see what works best for you. Alot of pedals will give you very different results depending on where you put them in the chain...sometimes good, sometimes bad.

Hope that helps.

[TheMutt]

Originally Posted by ogcaleb

1. Tuner - have a boss tu-3, no questions.

I'd put that first in the chain.

Originally Posted by ogcaleb

2. Distortion - played through my friends big muff bass and loved it. pretty set on picking one up, but I haven't purchased it yet.

You can find them for sale in the classifieds often enough for cheaper than you will find in stores. Generally there are those who love em and those who hate em, you just need to capitalize on one of those people who hate theirs.

Originally Posted by ogcaleb

3. Synth - i can't find a single synth that doesn't have extremely mixed reviews. Boss SYB-5 only got a 3.5 and is $160.. is it really worth it? I've heard terrible things about the Ibanez SB7, and i don't know of any other good, designated synth pedals.

There are many good synth pedals, but most of them are way over the $160 price range. I'd suggest looking into a DigiTech Bass Synth Wah if you need synth type sounds on the cheap.

Originally Posted by ogcaleb

4. Delay - Digitech Digidelay? Boss DD-6? Boss DD-20? Behringer DD-100? Something else?

Electro-Harmonix Memory Boy/Memory Toy, Earthquaker Devices Disaster Transport/Disaster Transport Jr, or the Malekko Ekko 616 would be the ones I would most consider if you wanted an analog style delay (the EQD is a digital modeled after an analog). If you need something with tap tempo, I'd go with a BOSS DD-5/DD-7 for the external switch capability; an Electro Harmonix Deluxe Memory Boy/Stereo Memory Man with Hazarai, or a Hardwire DL-8 if you'd rather have the tap-tempo onboard.

Originally Posted by ogcaleb

5. Wah - Crybaby? Morley? Bootzilla? Vox?

The Wilson Effects bass wah pedals are still the epitome of bass wah in my book. I'd still own mine if I could find a use for it.

Originally Posted by ogcaleb

6. Chorus - Boss CEB-3? T-rex Sweeper? Digitech XBC?

This depends on your chorus needs:
Lush/full: Analogman Chorus (Mini/Bi/Standard, depth switch or fixed deep option is a must!), Electro-Harmonix Small Clone/Neo Clone, BOSS CE-5, BOSS CEB-3, DigiTech XBC Bass Multi Chorus.
Somewhere in the middle: BOSS CH-1, Maxon CS-9, Ibanez CS-9.
Shimmery/3d: BOSS PS-5 in detune mode, BOSS DC-2/DC-3, Fromel Seraph.

Originally Posted by ogcaleb

7. Compression - Digitech XBS? Boss LMB-3? Markbass? Aguilar?

http://www.ovnilab.com/

Originally Posted by ogcaleb

8. EQ - Do I even need one? Is it worth it to have one in my chain when I can just adjust via my head? If so should I get

I wouldn't say it's absolutely necessary, but they can certainly come in handy. As far as what kind of EQ, it depends on if you want one that is particularly voiced for something like the Barber Linden EQ, Tech 21 VT Bass/VT Deluxe/Leeds/Oxford/US Steel/British/Liverpool/Blonde/California, Tech 21 Bass Driver DI/Para Driver DI, Aguilar Tone Hammer, EBS ValveDrive/MicroBass II, or MXR M-80 Bass DI; or if you want a general EQ like the Empress ParaEQ, BYOC 10-band EQ, MXR 10-band EQ, or BOSS GEB-7. Personally, I don't use an EQ on my board anymore.

Originally Posted by ogcaleb

9. Volume - Morley or Ernie Ball?

I can't recommend the Ernie Ball Volume Pedal Jr. enough. It's incredibly strong, lasts almost forever, requires no batteries/power supplies (unlike the Morley), and is easy to repair yourself should you ever need to. (I've only had to do this once on a pedal that I purchased broken... great way to save money if you know how to solder.)

Originally Posted by ogcaleb

10. Loop - Can anyone compare Boss RC-2 to RC-20XL? Boomerang?

Someone else is going to have to field this one as I do not have any experience with loopers.

Originally Posted by ogcaleb

Every professional I've seen has a tech 21 Sansamp, but from what I've seen they're for enhancing bass sound to get a good tube tone. I play a Pbass American Standard through Monster Rock cables into an Ampeg Classic and Ampeg 4x10 cab... so I don't think I'm lacking a tube tone. Do I need one?

The short answer is, no.
The long answer is maybe. If you go into the PA without micing your cab, you might consider getting one, or if you do recording and don't want to lug the extremely heavy amp around. Otherwise it's probably not necessary IMHO.

Originally Posted by ogcaleb

What order should I put them in?

Generally, with GREAT exception to variation, signal chains are set up:
Pitch detection (tuner/octaver/harmonizer)
Filter (envelope filter/auto wah/wah pedal)
Drive (overdrive/distortion/fuzz)
EQ/Tonality (Preamp/EQ)
Modulation (Chorus/Flanger/Phaser/Vibrato/Tremolo/etc)
Echo/Delay/Time (Reverb/Delay/Loopers)
Of course, this is only a suggestion.You could set up your board any number of different ways, with things in effects loops or what have you. The best thing to do is experiment.

It would also be helpful if you told us what kind of music you were playing, as well as your budget, so that we could narrow down the search for you.

[Jared Lash]

Originally Posted by Pandafist

LOL. Correct.
See my post for proof (and good taste).

No arguments from me on your choices.

But if I'm just listing mine it would look something like this:

1. Tuner - Korg Pitchblack
2. Distortion - If you actually want distortion I'd go Aguilar AGRO. For fuzzes I've got a Brown Dog and B:Assmaster
3. Synth - My favorite is the Korg G5
4. Delay - I have an Empress Superdelay and Malekko 616
5. Wah - Last had a G-Lab Wowee Wah but I'm just not really a wah guy
6. Chorus - Analogman Minichorus is my favorite but I just don't use chorus. Unless detune counts, then I'd say Boss PS-3
7. Compression - Retrospec Squeeze Box
8. EQ - Don't use one
9. Volume - Ernie Ball, but mine is used as an expression pedal
10. Loop - Boomerang if you really need a dedicated looper. Otherwise I'd rather have a delay that can do the little bit of looping I do (Superdelay, SMMwH, Headrush, DM-4 etc)

[ogcaleb]

I'm so sorry, I thought I put something. We're alternative, hard rock, progressive. Think Coheed and Cambria, Emery, Rush, and a little GnR.

Thank you all for your responses, i'm learning a lot already.

Budget really isn't an option. We haven't been signed, but a record label has us on retainer and I just received a fat cash bonus. (I have an 80k a year salary with my day job.) Obviously i'd rather drop 1 than 6 per pedal though.

[ogcaleb]

Originally Posted by Jared Lash

The first question I have is why the effects types you listed are the ones you want. Outside of the EQ (which you question needing) do you need them all?

I've been listening to the last bass player in the recordings and while he hasn't used everything i've mentioned, i'd like to be able to play what he's already done in a live show, while also contributing creatively and helping write new songs. and endless sounds help endless inspiration imo.

Also, like i said i'm building this board. so if i ever want to say use a synth wah and a regular wah in the future, I'd like to build it big enough to accommodate for upgrades. Hence me wanting one of every broad effects discipline.

I really can't thank you guys enough. i've got a lot to think about already.