The iOS bass player thread, PART II. (Jamup XT, Audiobus, Multitrack DAW and more)

[Rip Topaz]

Here's something I've been doing with my presets when it's just me playing. Not sure how useful it would be in a mix, but when I'm playing solo I add a touch of reverb with the reverb pedal (in Jamup).


Just a touch gives you a nice ambience to your tone. To me it makes it a little less sterile, almost like there's an amp in the room!!

[Duke21]

A touch of reverb is something I use quite a bit. I use the Spring reverb.

[Rip Topaz]

When I set the room reverb, I always try to make sure that it's not gonna ring out too much, just enough to make it sound like its loud in the room that I'm in.

So I'm not using it to really add a lot, just a slight ambience.

[Rip Topaz]

I do have other presets where the reverb is more prominent. One of my Redhead presets has a TON of reverb.

[steve_rolfeca]

Originally Posted by thiocyclist

Can I get some opinions on using JamUp or other iOS devices live? I'm talking full signal chain front to back... One thing I'm conflicted about right now is how you have to use the headphone out so this means you would have to take up the I/O port on the laptop or an external mixer. If you use the I/O I can't use it for my software instruments controlled by my keyboard so that's a no go...

???

That's not a necessary limitation, with your laptop or in IOS. Combined digital audio/MIDI IO options are available for both platforms.

[adambomb]

Originally Posted by thiocyclist

I got the JamUp XT version on my iPhone and plugged it into my keyboard amp with my fretless. I was never clear how much amp control I really had although the effects definitely worked. The preset banks were a great feature. Still holding out on buying the bass pack because it's hard to envision how I'd use this live... whereas with my Macbook Pro it's pretty clear to me how I would do it right.

Can I get some opinions on using JamUp or other iOS devices live? I'm talking full signal chain front to back... One thing I'm conflicted about right now is how you have to use the headphone out so this means you would have to take up the I/O port on the laptop or an external mixer. If you use the I/O I can't use it for my software instruments controlled by my keyboard so that's a no go...

So a question to you is what are you trying to accomplish and what instrument/s are you going to play then we could be able to help better.
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/attach...8&d=1355689327
the link is a photo of my setup.
Me, playing bass only, I use a digital USB interface that does the ad/da it travels in and out through the 30pin port via the apple CCK and from the interface I use a patch cable to a DI that goes to a soundboard FOH.

[adambomb]

Originally Posted by Rip Topaz

When I set the room reverb, I always try to make sure that it's not gonna ring out too much, just enough to make it sound like its loud in the room that I'm in.

So I'm not using it to really add a lot, just a slight ambience.

i couldnt use reverb live because the room we play in the most is huge and the "ambient" reverb is a battle with bounce back and stack up resonances. the reverb would stack on top of each other and tone would become "foggy". in a smaller room i could see that it wouldn't be too bad.

recording something is a whole different ballgame a touch of reverb is gooooood.

[Rip Topaz]

Originally Posted by adambomb

i couldnt use reverb live because the room we play in the most is huge and the "ambient" reverb is a battle with bounce back and stack up resonances. the reverb would stack on top of each other and tone would become "foggy". in a smaller room i could see that it wouldn't be too bad.

recording something is a whole different ballgame a touch of reverb is gooooood.

Oh yeah, definitely. I should clarify that.

I add the reverb when I'm playing SOLO, in my basement. In a band situation NO reverb at all, I let the room provide its own reverb. I actually strongly try to get my guitarists to do the same. Most get it, a few have the "it's my sound" attitude. Those are the ones that end up with a bad mix.

But for solo stuff , like when I'm just doing a quick clip, it helps add a bit of ambience. My basement is soundproofed pretty well, so things sound pretty dead. So dead, in fact, that when I'm jamming in my basement, I always end up having to give everyone their own monitor to hear the band. It seems like each instrument's sound stays in its own area in the room, so drummer's just can't hear everyone else without a monitor, same for guitars. Very dead room, it's great for recording but can be a pain for rehearsing.

But anyway, that's why I add the reverb. Most wont need to but it helps give the illusion of a bigger room. If you're doing your recording with a mic in a bigger room with less soundproofing, the room will provide the ambience.

[adambomb]

Originally Posted by Rip Topaz

Most get it, a few have the "it's my sound" attitude. Those are the ones that end up with a bad mix.

That's why I posted it wasn't aimed directly at you.... Cause I know your more "seasoned" you do get it.
I was just telling the guitarist last night that in the avioms his signal is running through a vox all in one pedal type thing (if I knew the model of the top of my head I would say cause its a good one....but) He has a ton of reverb on one of the songs and in the in-ears it sounds great....but he wonders why no one can hear him and why the sound guy keeps him down in the main mix. And I tell him that with all the reverb he's putting in to the signal that it sounds like garbage out in the house....he hears me he says, but doesn't seem to be listening . I didn't say garbage to him I said, "you can't really hear or make out what your playing because its too distant sounding or intelligible". In other songs he sounds great. Just the one setting he has made.

[Rip Topaz]

I can't even count how many times I've had that talk with guitarists. They love their reverb, but very few seem to understand that a reverb effect is an artificial way of creating room ambience.

If you pile on reverb to make you guitar sound better to you, you've added a second ambience to the one that already exists in the room itself.

I ALWAYS play live without reverb. None. And any time I've been able to convince my guitarists to try it, the band's mix as a whole is better.

[thiocyclist]

Originally Posted by steve_rolfeca

That's not a necessary limitation, with your laptop or in IOS. Combined digital audio/MIDI IO options are available for both platforms.

My laptop only has a single I/O. The iPhone/iPad has the 30-pin or Lightning connector and the headphone jack (which it seems are best used as I and O, respectively). I don't want to do anything extra fancy that adds latency or stresses the connections if I can help it.

Originally Posted by adambomb

So a question to you is what are you trying to accomplish and what instrument/s are you going to play then we could be able to help better.
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/attach...8&d=1355689327
the link is a photo of my setup.
Me, playing bass only, I use a digital USB interface that does the ad/da it travels in and out through the 30pin port via the apple CCK and from the interface I use a patch cable to a DI that goes to a soundboard FOH.

I want to play bass guitar and software instruments controlled by keyboards. The two means I have for this right now are A) bass into its own, fairly normal rig but this limits my tone processing choices compared to B) run both instruments into GarageBand or another software with the right AU plugins for my needs. I am already very familiar with this approach for the keyboard. The thing I don't know is how well having both coming out of the same line out of the Macbook would sound. Then there's C) do something with iOS, and I'm still trying to figure out what that would even be. As you can guess because I am wielding to instruments I have to be able to create and use loops which I know JamUp can do, although it seems a little crude on first blush, and ultimately I want to keep as many of my parts on the exact same click as possible so my bandmate, who does the same approach, and I have an easier time keeping on the same metronomic page.

Thanks for the pic. So you're not using the headphone jack on the iPad?? I don't get it.

[thebassbuilder]

Has anyone noticed when going through audiobus by way of jamup and MTDAW it changes the tone of your bass? I was testing everything lastnight and noticed my tone would change once I launched MTDAW. When in Jamup I had a nice grind mid range sound going and then when I launched MTDAW it lost some of the mids and went more bass heavy.

[adambomb]

My bass is plugged into the art USB dual pre to the left channel and I set the led to show green and never into the red

www.sweetwater.com/images/items/1800/USBDualPrePS-xlarge.jpg

The art converts the analogue signal to digital then goes into the iPad through the apple camera connection usb to 30 pin adapter

www.sync-blog.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Apple-Camera-Connection-Kit-CCK.jpg

and jamup does the magic and sends back through the USB to the ART and the ART converts the digital back to analogue and sends the processed signal through the left monitor output jack.

www.sweetwater.com/images/closeup/xl/1600-USBDualPrePS_rear.jpg

At this point the signal can be sent to an amp but i send the signal through a patch cable to a direct box. The direct box converts the signal to send an XLR cable to the mic input of the mixer board to be amplified in the FOH.

[thiocyclist]

Thanks. So the JamUp app is receiving a clean signal from the ART pre and sending a dirty signal back with the same cabling (the 30 pin)? I guess I didn't think that was possible. Neat! Certainly helps a bit... hmm.

[Rip Topaz]

Today's offering to the legacy of Duke21.
http://soundcloud.com/rip_topaz/dist...-mix-2/s-bMwEG

[Rip Topaz]

Originally Posted by thebassbuilder

Has anyone noticed when going through audiobus by way of jamup and MTDAW it changes the tone of your bass? I was testing everything lastnight and noticed my tone would change once I launched MTDAW. When in Jamup I had a nice grind mid range sound going and then when I launched MTDAW it lost some of the mids and went more bass heavy.

That's the limit of you machine, as well as your interface. Irig? What device?

[adambomb]

Originally Posted by Rip Topaz

Today's offering to the legacy of Duke21.
http://soundcloud.com/rip_topaz/dist...-mix-2/s-bMwEG

very sweet tune i really dig this one

[steve_rolfeca]

Originally Posted by adambomb

My bass is plugged into the art USB dual pre to the left channel...

...The art converts the analogue signal to digital then goes into the iPad through the apple camera connection usb to 30 pin adapter

...and jamup does the magic and sends back through the USB to the ART and the ART converts the digital back to analogue and sends the processed signal through the left monitor output jack.

This is how it's normally done with a laptop, as well. Nobody uses the audio in and audio out jacks on a computer for any sort of serious audio work.

The simplest digital audio interface you'll ever see, is something like the Apogee Jam. It only performs one-way communications, because it has analog-to-digital conversion only. As a result, all it can do is digitize the output from your bass, guitar or ??? to USB.

In the midrange, you'll find lots of boxes like the Alesis IO Dock or Focusrite iTrack (IOS) or Apogee Duet (Mac), that give you the basics- maybe 2 channel audio in and out over USB, phantom power for a condenser mic or two, line outs and a headphone jack. Some also support midi I/O, and some don't.

The most complex interfaces will have more analog inputs, extra audio outputs for flexible monitoring and routing, MIDI ins and outs, Firewire instead of USB, other digital audio connections like SPDIF optical or electrical, etc., timing signals via AES/EBU, and in some cases, connectors for extension busses like ADAT or MADI.

The sky is pretty much the limit these days, if you have a powerful laptop. About the largest and most complex one supported by IOS, is this Presonus:

http://www.presonus.com/products/AudioBox-1818VSL

The best part, is that some of the current IOS options are also supported on PC and/or Mac via USB (the iTrack, Jam, 1818VSL, etc.). Devices that can pull double duty are the best of both worlds, letting you move your tracks back and forth between the ease and convenience of IOS, and the brute processing power of computers.

[thebassbuilder]

I am using iRIg for the interface but not sure how that could make the tone change when opening another app.

[Evangelos]

Hello people, I'm Evangelos from Greece.Rip Topaz told me about this forum.Im into iOS music making,using Apogee Jam ,jamup xt pro ,audiobus ,all the good stuff
There is a small detail ,im not a bassist ,only guitarist.I hope im welcome here.
I do believe in the greatness of bass players,they re the backbone of any band. Glad to have found you.Rock on