The iOS bass player thread, PART II. (Jamup XT, Audiobus, Multitrack DAW and more)

[adambomb]

Originally Posted by MADChuudoku

forgive me in advance, but as this thread is moving so fast it's a bit hard to find all the information ive been after...


just wondered which of the interfaces for plugging your bass into the iOS device has been found to be the best?

"Best" is relative term but all "most" in this thread would say the apogee jam.
For input it truly has the best specs. With 24bit 48khz input. But that is input only there is no digital out. the iDevice is doing the Digital to analogue conversion for output through the headphone jack.
I use the ART USB dual pre which handles the a/d and d/a but only at 16bit 48khz the art costs less but is more versatile in input and output stages. There is those here that have the itrack. It is even better on the input side than the apogee but also costs more, but is not as mobile as the jam or art, and costs more than both.
So as you see there is an interface for you and there are more out there than what I have mentioned but it depends on your needs and budget.

[Rip Topaz]

Originally Posted by adambomb

"Best" is relative term but all "most in this thread would say the apogee jam.
For input it truly has the best specs. With 24bit 48khz input. But that is input only there is no digital out. the iDevice is doing the Digital to analogue conversion for output through the headphone jack.
I use the ART USB dual pre which handles the a/d and d/a but only at 16bit 48khz the art costs less but is more versatile in input and output stages. There is those here that have the itrack. It is even better on the input side than the apogee but also costs more, but is not as mobile as the jam or art, and costs more than both.
So as you see there is an interface for you and there are more out there than what I have mentioned but it depends on your needs and budget.

+1.

For iPhone, without question the Apogee Jam is the best.

For iPad, it's going to depend on your application. If its live gigs, the ART USB Dual Pre is gonna be the "best". If its studio or "fixed installation" type stuff, the iTrack is probably better just for the specs.

[Duke21]

Originally Posted by adambomb

I'm using the shure 215s for my live monitoring they sound fantastic! since having these I have been able to give a better representation to the house and I don't push the bass to heavy to FOH because I hear the bass in my ears clearer and more defined.
Very tight bass. The 425s seem to be the top choice since they are more reference sound geared, but also really expensive (to me). The 215s have an up and down kind of wave going on (peaks on several frequencies)......it seems to be flat while listening.
What's up with the one huge spike on the 425s on around 9000hz? Seem like that would be noticeable.

Steve, do you have to dial back the treble a bit on that freq? Do you notice that spike?

This spike is not noticeable really, not in rock music. What you hear is that they have this nice top sparkle.
I never dial an EQ when I listen to music.

[steve_rolfeca]

Originally Posted by MADChuudoku

...just wondered which of the interfaces for plugging your bass into the iOS device has been found to be the best?

That's not an easy question to answer. What are your needs?

Alesis IO Dock- best combination of I/O options (midi, XLR mic inputs, 1/4" in and out, and separate headphone outputs), with charging for the iPad, in a large, stable form factor. Audio quality good, but not tops. No iPhone compatibility, MIDI implementation is limited.

Apogee Jam- best combination of input quality, security of the connection to the iPad, ease of use, and portability. Digital input only, no Midi, no microphone conections, and no digital audio out. Have to use headphone jack as your output connector. Doubles as a USB computer interface.

ART USB Dual Pre- best price vs performance balance in a full digital in-and-out box. Two inputs. Clunkier to use than MFI (Made For iPad) devices, needs the Apple Camera Connection kit for use with an iPad, so no iphone compatibility. Good combination of inputs and outputs. Converters aren't as sultry as more expensive options, but still good. Form factor is middling, similar to iTrack. Doubles as a USB computer interface.

Focusrite iTrack: Audio quality close or equal to the Apogee, Two inputs, one with an XLR mic input, the other for 1/4 instrument inputs, has proper digital output section with a good headphone amp. Stiff, inconveniently short 30-pin cable. Doubles as a USB computer interface. Form factor is halfway between the clunky Alesis, and the compact Apogee.

GuitarJack 2- Metal housing is more robust than the Apogee, digital in and out, suprising number of connection options for such a compact device. Fiddly UI, requires the use of an extra app to control input levels. Expensive, limited distribution in some markets, non-locking connector can be dislodged by cable movement.

iRiffport- Simple to use, puts the headphone jack close to the output jack on your guitar, has a line out, best price/performance compromise? No input attenuator, headphone output doesn't deal well with hard-to-drive cans, non-locking connector is easily dislodged.

iRig- questionable audio performance, but still the price leader.

Line 6 MobileIn- Compact, cheaper and fuller-featured than the Apogee, some reported incompatibllity with apps, middling sound quality. Non-locking connector.

Presonus AudioBox 1818VSL- Currently the most inputs available in an IOS-compatible interface. Great for use with Auria for live multitracking. Requires the Apple CCK, iPad only. Doesn't like hot pickups, not a high-end recording interface by any means, but terrific bang for the buck at a third of the price of the RME. Doubles as a 24/96 computer interface. 8 mic preamps, MIDI, ADAT, SPDIF, word clock out, etc.

RME UCX- the Cadillac option. Two inputs, RME converters are world class, has every expansion, gozinta and gozouta imagineable, including ADAT expansion. Super-stable intelligent clocking. Doubles as a computer interface. Unfortunately, the cost is so high that no-one here has bought one to date.

[adambomb]

Originally Posted by steve_rolfeca

The 215's sound very nice, but if you hear them as flat, you listen very differently to me. The boost below 200Hz is huge (10dB equals 10x the power!!!), and it comes across to me as a muddy low end, killing the growl and detail from my basses.

Ok don't be so hoity toity with your 425s
I was only saying that it "perceives" as flat the rest of the range. Also it's easier to dial back the bass if need be than to boost it so it is more efficient in the bass side which means less distortion on the lower end. If they are muddy to you maybe there is a difference in your bass tone than mine. Maybe you are pushing a lot more of a certain frequency in the mid bass than I am, in your bass electronics or strings....whatever.... Mine are very clear and tight. What can I say. I wasn't dissing your 425s. I'm "shure" they are amazing. I wish I had some 425s too.

[Duke21]

Originally Posted by adambomb

Yeah I was just wondering about the spike I'm sure they sound great.....

Definitely a huge difference in data and perception.

To me the data on the 215s just tell me they won't have to work as hard to produce louder bass which interprets into less distorted bass. But the rest of the response is about the same as the other in spl.....actually the 215s seem to be the most efficient... than the others on the graph.

I like the 215 a lot for bass playing due to the reasons you're mentioning here. But then my tone is not bass heavy and I use a pick.

[adambomb]

Don't get mad Steve I was joking about the hoity toity stuff. I love you man

[Duke21]

Originally Posted by steve_rolfeca

The 215's sound very nice, but if you hear them as flat, you listen very differently to me. The boost below 200Hz is huge (10dB equals 10x the power!!!), and it comes across to me as a muddy low end, killing the growl and detail from my basses.

As far as needing to dial back the treble with the SE425's, I find just the opposite. If you look closer at the plot for the 425's, there's a hole on either side of the "spike", and that narrow peak in the treble is only level with the bass and midrange, around 0dB.

The hole in the upper midrange just serves to smooth out any harshness that might be present in the actual mix. I would be more concerned about the way they roll off in the upper treble, except that in a live performance there's never anything useful up there.

I was not a fan of the older Shures (E2 through E5), as I found it hard to maintain a good seal, and they didn't sound good until I got up to the ridiculously overpriced E5's.

However, the new line is something else. I was saving for a much more expensive set of Westones when my buddy turned me on to the SE425's. Even after paying close to $300 with tax for the Shures, I was still hundreds of dollars ahead.

I have an expensive pair of Baer DT880 over-ear headphones, as well as a couple of pairs of AKG's, and they've been sitting on the shelf since I got the 425's.

The SE425 are excellent IEM, but many which are not used to reference sound will find them lean on bass. I find them perfect for both bass playing and even better music listening. I'll have no problem to use the SE215 live.

[Duke21]

Originally Posted by steve_rolfeca

That's not an easy question to answer. What are your needs?

Alesis IO Dock- best combination of I/O options (midi, XLR mic inputs, 1/4" in and out, and separate headphone outputs), with charging for the iPad, in a large, stable form factor. Audio quality good, but not tops. Midi implementation is limited.

Apogee Jam- best combination of input quality, security of the connection to the iPad, ease of use, and portability. Digital input only, no Midi, no microphone conections, and no digital audio out. Have to use headphone jack as your output connector. Doubles as a USB computer interface.

ART USB Dual Pre- best price vs performance balance in a full digital in-and-out box. Clunkier to use than MFI (Made For iPad) devices, needs the Apple Camera Connection kit for use with an iPad, so no iphone compatibility. Good combination of inputs and outputs. Converters aren't as sultry as more expensive options, but still good. Form factor is middling, similar to iTrack.

Focusrite iTrack: Audio quality close or equal to the Apogee, separate XLR and guitar inputs, has proper digital output section with a good headphone amp. Stiff, inconveniently short 30-pin cable. Doubles as a USB computer interface. Form factor is halfway between the clunky Alesis, and the compact Apogee.

GuitarJack 2- Metal housing is more robust than the Apogee, digital in and out, suprising number of connection options for such a compact device. Fiddly UI, requires the use of an extra app to control input levels. Expensive, limited distribution in some markets, non-locking connector can be dislodged by cable movement.

iRiffport- Simple to use, puts the headphone jack close to the output jack on your guitar, has a line out, best price/performance compromise? No input attenuator, headphone output doesn't deal well with hard-to-drive cans, non-locking connector is easily dislodged.

iRig- questionable audio performance, but still the price leader.

Line 6 MobileIn- Compact, cheaper and fuller-featured than the Apogee, some reported incompatibllity with apps, middling sound quality. Non-locking connector.

Make this one a sticky!!!!!

[steve_rolfeca]

Originally Posted by Duke21

Make this one a sticky!!!!!

Damn, you got that in before I finished editing.

No sticky without the RME, just to taunt us all with its unattainable excellence!

[adambomb]

Originally Posted by steve_rolfeca

Damn, you got that in before I finished editing.

No sticky without the RME, just to taunt us all with its unattainable excellence!

that's the reason I said use and budget

[adambomb]

Edit: the art also doubles as computer interface and two channels

[adambomb]

Oh yeah..Just thought of this....No release date yet but.....soon you'll have to add that iRig-hd in there too

[adambomb]

Steve, how's that mainstage going?
I have it but still haven't gone into it.

[Rip Topaz]

Last night, while talking with my wife about the jam yesterday afternoon, we got to talking about how the whole setup is secured.

I usually just lay my music stand close to flat, then just use it as a shelf for my iPhone, the Jam and whatever else I need close by while playing.

Only problem is that the weight of the cabling pulls everything off the stand!!

So I ordered a mic stand clip for my iPhone. Hopefully that will give me some point to secure everything that I'll still be able to reach it to change presets and turn pedals on and off.

What does everyone else use to keep their setup together in one place? Lets see it if you've got a pic of your mic stand/ i- "rig" (uh, yeah).

Here's my spot for rehearsal, the music stand is my "amp" shelf.

You'll have to just imagine the actual iPhone setup because I used it to take the picture!!

[AaronMB]

My simple desktop setup, back from the first thread.

Velcro and weight where needed is your friend.

[Rip Topaz]

Originally Posted by AaronMB

My simple desktop setup, back from the first thread.

Velcro and weight where needed is your friend.

Did you ever get the "rocker" to work?

[steve_rolfeca]

Originally Posted by adambomb

Edit: the art also doubles as computer interface and two channels

Edited post #344 to add further ART info, and Presonus 1818VSL.

[steve_rolfeca]

Originally Posted by adambomb

Steve, how's that mainstage going?
I have it but still haven't gone into it.

Haven't had a chance to get into it. Doing a bunch of carving and a refin on my main bass, have a couple of repair jobs on the go for other people. Also, I've been back and forth to the post office, trading a fretted P-Bass neck for my Squier VM fretless Jazz, and swapping my Genz Benz Streamliner 900 for a modded MIM Jazz V with an Audere preamp and Duncan pickups.

[thiocyclist]

Originally Posted by adambomb

To me the data on the 215s just tell me they won't have to work as hard to produce louder bass which interprets into less distorted bass. But the rest of the response is about the same as the other in spl.....actually the 215s seem to be the most efficient... than the others on the graph.

That's not how most studio engineers would interpret the same kind of graph for a set of quality monitors. You don't want a huge spike in the bass (e.g., from porting) or a sudden roll-off. The ideal monitor (which does not exist AFAIK) is very nearly flat across the board, able to represent the audible spectrum of frequencies equally. Otherwise you are getting a "biased" picture of what is actually happening and in many cases this enhanced bass response would be very detrimental to hearing a reliable and good-sounding mix.