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12-03-2012, 05:19 AM
|  | Registered User | | Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Willow Street, PA | | Quote: |
Originally Posted by Duke21 | Don't get too excited. I've seen some pretty horrible reviews for this thing. |
12-03-2012, 05:20 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Narvik, Norway | | | Shame! It looked like the real deal regarding Sans-amp solution...
But maybe the new update on JamUp fixed the issues?
Well, well, Apogee Jam works well, and so do iRig. |
12-03-2012, 05:23 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Willow Street, PA | | Quote: |
Originally Posted by Duke21 Shame! It looked like the real deal regarding Sans-amp solution...
But maybe the new update on JamUp fixed the issues?
Well, well, Apogee Jam works well, and so do iRig. | Apparently the issues are with the internal connectors not working properly. Interrupted sound and that sort of thing.
Seems like a great interface on paper, not so much in reality. |
12-03-2012, 05:26 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Narvik, Norway | | Yes. Luckily there are other good solutions out there. The most important is that Positive Grid gave out this latest update! 
Maybe they will listen to us regarding the future??  |
12-03-2012, 05:31 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Willow Street, PA | | Quote: |
Originally Posted by Duke21 Yes. Luckily there are other good solutions out there. The most important is that Positive Grid gave out this latest update!
Maybe they will listen to us regarding the future?? | I sent them several messages this morning, both on twitter and on Facebook. I gave them the link to this thread as well as the new club on Soundcloud.
Whoever jumps on board with us is gonna be the winner in this battle. So, who will step up? Will it be IK, Positive Grid (so far the winner), AmpKit, or PocketLabs?
My money is on Positive Grid. |
12-03-2012, 05:36 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Narvik, Norway | | | The underdog Positive Grid is as you say suddenly a major contender!!
They have most bass gear so far, by the mile...
They only need to fix the recorder into a level which is minimum as the Ampkit one. A better metronome will help as well and maybe more options regarding impot/ export.
Last night I used only JamUp!! The vintage SVT is my favorite so far with the Redhead just behind. The BDDI is now so close to the real unit I've home... nice stuff!! |
12-03-2012, 05:58 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Willow Street, PA | | | The BDDI is so close to the real thing that I never made it past tweaking that and the Mutron. I had every intention of adding a few other bass amps in Jamup, but that BDDI is just so good I couldn't stop playing with it.
My only complaint is the recorder. I can't figure out how to record any samples and export them. |
12-03-2012, 06:05 AM
|  | Registered User | | Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: London, Ontario, Canada | | | My .02 on this:
The quality of the interface you use, especially the preamp and converters, are absolutely critical if you want quality tone out one of these setups, and especially if you have any idea of using it as a DI.
No offense to anyone intended, but if you think the iRig sounds OK, then I'm guessing that you don't own any pro audio gear. I'm used to the sort of clarity of sound, resistance to overload, rock-solid reliability and low noise levels that you get from gear like my Radial JDI, Genz-Benz Streamliner, Presonus StudioLive, etc., and the iRig just doesn't cut it in that company.
I tried using a Tascam US-800 with the CCK. So-so preamps, like you get from any USB recording interface that gives you a high channel count plus MIDI, etc., for under $200. But you do get external D/A conversion, power from a full-sized external power supply, a more robust headphone amp, etc. I thought it might be good enough to give me an idea of what these apps were capable of.
It worked, but it was a pain in the neck. I had to keep my levels way under the point where the overload LED tripped, or I'd have a loose, blowy sound, fart-outs, etc. Also, the slightest movement would dislodge the CCK.
The end result was that I couldn't get a good read on the quality of the apps.
While trying to decide on a multi-channel recording interface, I thought I'd try an Apogee Jam for headphone practice. Now that's more like it. The sound was good enough to hear how un-responsive the Jamup XT amp models were to dynamics on guitar, to decide that the extra-cost B-15 for Amplitube was startlingly accurate, to find some pretty stellar guitar tones with my PRS McCarty, etc.
And it works reliably. The locking cable connectors mean that my cable can pull it off the edge of the table and leave it dangling without any loss of signal, just like grown-up gear. All the pops and quirky freeze-ups, etc. are gone. I would prefer a metal housing and a high-output headphone amp, but it works at a level that's worthy of an Apple product.
A heavy gigging schedule didn't leave me time to check out the JamUp upgrade, but at least now I feel like I will be able to give it a good listen... |
12-03-2012, 06:12 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Willow Street, PA | | Quote: |
Originally Posted by steve_rolfeca My .02 on this:
The quality of the interface you use, especially the preamp and converters, are absolutely critical if you want quality tone out one of these setups, and especially if you have any idea of using it as a DI.
No offense to anyone intended, but if you think the iRig sounds OK, then I'm guessing that you don't own any pro audio gear. I'm used to the sort of clarity of sound, resistance to overload, rock-solid reliability and low noise levels that you get from gear like my Radial JDI, Genz-Benz Streamliner, Presonus StudioLive, etc., and the iRig just doesn't cut it in that company.
I tried using a Tascam US-800 with the CCK. So-so preamps, like you get from any USB recording interface that gives you a high channel count plus MIDI, etc., for under $200. But you do get external D/A conversion, power from a full-sized external power supply, a more robust headphone amp, etc. I thought it might be good enough to give me an idea of what these apps were capable of.
It worked, but it was a pain in the neck. I had to keep my levels way under the point where the overload LED tripped, or I'd have a loose, blowy sound, fart-outs, etc. Also, the slightest movement would dislodge the CCK.
The end result was that I couldn't get a good read on the quality of the apps.
While trying to decide on a multi-channel recording interface, I thought I'd try an Apogee Jam for headphone practice. Now that's more like it. The sound was good enough to hear how un-responsive the Jamup XT amp models were to dynamics on guitar, to decide that the extra-cost B-15 for Amplitube was startlingly accurate, to find some pretty stellar guitar tones with my PRS McCarty, etc.
And it works reliably. The locking cable connectors mean that my cable can pull it off the edge of the table and leave it dangling without any loss of signal, just like grown-up gear. All the pops and quirky freeze-ups, etc. are gone. I would prefer a metal housing and a high-output headphone amp, but it works at a level that's worthy of an Apple product.
A heavy gigging schedule didn't leave me time to check out the JamUp upgrade, but at least now I feel like I will be able to give it a good listen... | Well, that was a bit uninformed. I have PLENTY of high end gear, no complaints at all. Saying that it's impossible to get a good sound from Irig is just wrong. Sure, it takes some patience and a ton of tweaking, but it can and has been done.
I have every intention of upgrading my interface to the Jam, but stepping in here and basically calling us amateurs without knowing any of us, that just comes off as standoffish right from the beginning.
I'm a 30+ year veteran here, NOT some teenage noob. I've played on both huge arena stages as well as dive bars. I'd be confident taking my rig (as is) into any of these situations, even with Irig.
I let the music do the talking, so I won't brag. But I will say that your post was offensive to me since it was extremely uninformed and biased. Maybe read the thread before making judgements next time.
And we know that the Irig interface is lacking. That's one of the main reasons for this thread, we are trying to attract the attention of these companies and get them to step up their game.
One thing for certain though. Until someone steps up and makes a worthy interface, we will continue to tweak the stuff we have available to us.
Last edited by Rip Topaz : 12-03-2012 at 06:27 AM.
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12-03-2012, 06:59 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: London, Ontario, Canada | | Quote:
Originally Posted by Rip Topaz  ...I have PLENTY of high end gear, no complaints at all. Saying that it's impossible to get a good sound from Irig is just wrong. Sure, it takes some patience and a ton of tweaking, but it can and has been done.
...I will say that your post was offensive to me since it was extremely uninformed and biased. Maybe read the thread before making judgements next time. | I'm sorry if my post caught you the wrong way, but you're entitled to your opinion, and I'm entitled to mine.
As I attempted to express in one short sentence above:
- No offense to anyone intended
- I was GUESSING (my emphasis) that anyone who was OK with the amount of tweaking required, the hiss levels, lack of headroom, potential for feedback, etc. with the iRig probably hadn't experienced the seamless, fiddle-proof experience you typically get from pro audio.
Mid-level pro gear generally doesn't sound dramatically better than consumer equipment. The appeal is mostly in the details, like reliability and ease of use. Fluff the input gain a bit? Still sounds pretty good, and the feedback won't blow your brains out.
Anyway, I'm not going to engage in some sort of pissing match with you over who has more chops as a musician or a technologist. However, I would like to set the record straight on one point:
I didn't make any judgements about the skills, or lack thereof, of any of the previous posters, and you have no more basis to determine that I'm uninformed, than I would of you. I have read the whole thread, i didn't mean to condescend, and I didn't say that was impossible to get a good sound from the iRig.
My intent was simply to suggest to people who might otherwise write off all of these apps as a bad deal, that they should try them with an MFI 30-pin interface before making a final judgement.
Too many of my friends experimented with the iRig when it first came out, and decided that the whole idea of audio on IOS was a joke. I think we need to set the record straight.
Last edited by steve_rolfeca : 12-03-2012 at 07:02 AM.
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12-03-2012, 07:10 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Willow Street, PA | | | Fair enough. Sorry we got off on the wrong foot. Welcome to the fold.
As for our willingness to tweak, I think it's because we all realize the limits of the Irig, but there honestly aren't that many interfaces out there for iOS yet, so we don't have a lot of choice. We either tweak what's available to us, or give up on using an iOS amp sim.
The Jam seems to be the winner with the group. We all agree that 30-pin is the way to go, but again, not a bunch of choices available.
And you're very much correct. Even I initially wrote off the whole concept as junk. If it weren't for a few PMs I received from other users, my Irig interface would've ended up in the trash. |
12-03-2012, 07:24 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: London, Ontario, Canada | | | No problem.
Aside from the app crashes and other issues, my biggest concern with the Tascam/CCK pairing, was that input did not equal output. My active 5-string lacked it's normal headphone-rattling low end extension, levels were down compared to a straight instrument cable, and it sounded muffled, as though my strings had gone dead overnight.
That doesn't happen with a $50 DI, so I wasn't going to accept it from $200 worth of accessories and a $400 iPad.
With the Jam, the sound with amp sims bypassed is tolerably close to what I normally get from a straight patchcord, and I have just enough gain at the headphone output to match levels into my amp. |
12-03-2012, 07:37 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Willow Street, PA | | Quote: |
Originally Posted by steve_rolfeca No problem.
Aside from the app crashes and other issues, my biggest concern with the Tascam/CCK pairing, was that input did not equal output. My active 5-string lacked it's normal headphone-rattling low end extension, levels were down compared to a straight instrument cable, and it sounded muffled, as though my strings had gone dead overnight.
That doesn't happen with a $50 DI, so I wasn't going to accept it from $200 worth of accessories and a $400 iPad.
With the Jam, the sound with amp sims bypassed is tolerably close to what I normally get from a straight patchcord, and I have just enough gain at the headphone output to match levels into my amp. | I haven't had any problems with app crashes on the iPhone 4S.
It's always best to check your processed tone against the bypassed tone, if just for volume reference.
I'm gonna test Jamup today through my PA and see how it matches up to Amplitube. I'm happy with my AT tone. |
12-03-2012, 08:15 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Birmingham, AL | | Quote: |
Originally Posted by steve_rolfeca My .02 on this:
The quality of the interface you use, especially the preamp and converters, are absolutely critical if you want quality tone out one of these setups, and especially if you have any idea of using it as a DI.
No offense to anyone intended, but if you think the iRig sounds OK, then I'm guessing that you don't own any pro audio gear. I'm used to the sort of clarity of sound, resistance to overload, rock-solid reliability and low noise levels that you get from gear like my Radial JDI, Genz-Benz Streamliner, Presonus StudioLive, etc., and the iRig just doesn't cut it in that company.
I tried using a Tascam US-800 with the CCK. So-so preamps, like you get from any USB recording interface that gives you a high channel count plus MIDI, etc., for under $200. But you do get external D/A conversion, power from a full-sized external power supply, a more robust headphone amp, etc. I thought it might be good enough to give me an idea of what these apps were capable of.
It worked, but it was a pain in the neck. I had to keep my levels way under the point where the overload LED tripped, or I'd have a loose, blowy sound, fart-outs, etc. Also, the slightest movement would dislodge the CCK.
The end result was that I couldn't get a good read on the quality of the apps.
While trying to decide on a multi-channel recording interface, I thought I'd try an Apogee Jam for headphone practice. Now that's more like it. The sound was good enough to hear how un-responsive the Jamup XT amp models were to dynamics on guitar, to decide that the extra-cost B-15 for Amplitube was startlingly accurate, to find some pretty stellar guitar tones with my PRS McCarty, etc.
And it works reliably. The locking cable connectors mean that my cable can pull it off the edge of the table and leave it dangling without any loss of signal, just like grown-up gear. All the pops and quirky freeze-ups, etc. are gone. I would prefer a metal housing and a high-output headphone amp, but it works at a level that's worthy of an Apple product.
A heavy gigging schedule didn't leave me time to check out the JamUp upgrade, but at least now I feel like I will be able to give it a good listen... | Thanks for getting into the conversation Steve....I didn't take your post bad......we all know the iRig lacks and does require a lot of tweaking......and we all have pro gear....at least I do.....I don't have an expensive DI but I do have lots of other gear. I just can't use any of it at the church I play at several times a week.  AT is my solution to the policy.
30 pin is definitely the way to go.
I also have not had any issues with the app crashing on me I have a iPad2 and an iPhone 4 (not the "s").
So far AT has been the best sounding to me and I have recently gone back to the svt clone in live situations because of the more defined mids that it gives. I also have started using the sm57 instead of the u87 mic and actually cutting the bass on the amp and driving the gain and master volume more. This allows me to drive the "bass" more on my active 5'er and that has helped the response (at least in my headphones.)....it seems to give less muddiness in the large sanctuary also. (Our sound guy still loads down the guitars and keys with lots of low end.) I'm cutting in the mix better now and with a bit of growl. still for recording sake I would use the b15r.
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Last edited by adambomb : 12-03-2012 at 08:18 AM.
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12-03-2012, 09:27 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Willow Street, PA | | Quick FYI, I just talked to Positive Grid on Twitter, and they also suggest the Apogee Jam as the interface of choice.
They are interested in hearing from us. I was told to give them a call, as they are always interested in discussing things with users.
The guy's name is Derek, here's his contact info: buddemeyer72@yahoo.com
1(308)762-2661
Last edited by Rip Topaz : 12-03-2012 at 09:35 AM.
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12-03-2012, 09:35 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Birmingham, AL | | | Are you guys using the free version or xt pro
__________________
The Official Fender Bassman Club #13 - The Praise and Worship Band Bassists Club # 1103 - Official Virtual Ampeg Portaflex Club #1010101-01
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12-03-2012, 09:37 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Willow Street, PA | | Quote: |
Originally Posted by adambomb Are you guys using the free version or xt pro | I'm using the free version, and have added to it in app. |
12-03-2012, 09:39 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Birmingham, AL | | Quote: |
Originally Posted by Rip Topaz Quick FYI, I just talked to Positive Grid on Twitter, and they also suggest the Apogee Jam as the interface of choice.
They are interested in hearing from us. I was told to give them a call, as they are always interested in discussing things with users.
The guy's name is Derek, here's his contact info: buddemeyer72@yahoo.com
1(308)762-2661 | I hope you have already invited him to the conversation here
I also saw your user review in the App Store
__________________
The Official Fender Bassman Club #13 - The Praise and Worship Band Bassists Club # 1103 - Official Virtual Ampeg Portaflex Club #1010101-01
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12-03-2012, 09:41 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Willow Street, PA | | Quote: |
Originally Posted by adambomb
I hope you have already invited him to the conversation here
I also saw your user review in the App Store | Of course. |
12-03-2012, 10:31 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Birmingham, AL | | Quote: |
Originally Posted by steve_rolfeca
My intent was simply to suggest to people who might otherwise write off all of these apps as a bad deal, that they should try them with an MFI 30-pin interface before making a final judgement.
Too many of my friends experimented with the iRig when it first came out, and decided that the whole idea of audio on IOS was a joke. I think we need to set the record straight.
| There are a lot if nay sayers about amp/cab/mic sim out there. But I just think that it is the way of the future. It will never take the place of a real amp but recently it has gotten really great sounding. Especially for bassists......
It's a DI world for bassists.
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The Official Fender Bassman Club #13 - The Praise and Worship Band Bassists Club # 1103 - Official Virtual Ampeg Portaflex Club #1010101-01
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