The iRig

[Duke21]

Originally Posted by BigBeatNut

Right .... but there you're using the iPhone's headphone socket for both input and output, which I thought were both things to be avoided if possible.



Again you're using the iPhone's headphone socket for output, which Steve R is suggesting is sub-optimal.

I'm trying to understand how steve acheived this connectivity:

I think Steve R is a tiny bit "picky" . When you only send the sound out of the headphone socket you avoid cross talk and are only limited by the amp/DAC inside you iOS device and the fact that you are using this mini jack. But I think the Apogee Jam gives a very good compromise regarding price and simplicity.
I think that the following solution will work very well and give you a very decent control over your tone:
Bass - Apogee Jam - iOS Device - headphone socket out - mini mixer - what so ever you want to connect to.
With good cables and a decent mini mixer you will not loose too much.
Remember in a live mix ---- well how many will hear the difference??

[BigBeatNut]

Thanks.

I am still interested in how Steve made his connections without using the headphone socket on the iPhone, though, provided I've understood right and that's what he did.

[Duke21]

Originally Posted by BigBeatNut

Thanks.

I am still interested in how Steve made his connections without using the headphone socket on the iPhone, though, provided I've understood right and that's what he did.

Yes, it is quite simple to do what Steve do, but for doing doing that you will need a device/ interface which connect both to the iOS device both in and out through the 30pin docking port. Something like the ART Dual Pre that Adam is using is doing that or something like the Focusrite iTrack.
So, this is how you can do it with the iTrack or a similar device:

[BigBeatNut]

Brilliant, that's what I needed to know ... the missing piece was that I didn't know there were devices (Audio interfaces) that could use the iPhones USB connection that way. Thanks.

[Rip Topaz]

Originally Posted by Duke21

Yes, it is quite simple to do what Steve do, but for doing doing that you will need a device/ interface which connect both to the iOS device both in and out through the 30pin docking port. Something like the ART Dual Pre that Adam is using is doing that or something like the Focusrite iTrack.
So, this is how you can do it with the iTrack or a similar device:

I'm really starting to wonder if the itrack may be my best bet. I wonder how well it works with the iPhone.

[Duke21]

Originally Posted by Rip Topaz

I'm really starting to wonder if the itrack may be my best bet. I wonder how well it works with the iPhone.

I have ordered the iTrack (one reason is for Ric O Sound possibilities ) so I might have it within a week. I can try it with the iPhone 4S of my wife, then we will know if it is working as it should!

[adambomb]

Just for the documentation of things:

The art does work on my iPhone 4
-it enters the art preamp
-converts from analogue to digital inside art
-enters the device through USB / 30 pin
-processes in app
-exits the device 30 pin / USB
-Converts from digital to analogue inside art
-Exits the art through headphones out or balanced monitor outs (left or right), which can be mixed: direct from preamp or processed signal to your preference.

[PrietoBass]

Originally Posted by adambomb

Just for the documentation of things:

The art does work on my iPhone 4
-it enters the art preamp
-converts from analogue to digital inside art
-enters the device through USB / 30 pin processes in app
-exits the device 30 pin / USB
-Converts from digital to analogue inside art
-Exits the art through headphones out or balanced monitor outs (left or right), which can be mixed: direct from preamp or processed signal to your preference.

I know you had mentioned which model... but could you post that again?

[steve_rolfeca]

Originally Posted by Duke21

I think Steve R is a tiny bit "picky" .

Them's fightin' words! After over 40 years as an electronics/audio geek, I like to think that I'm way more than just a "tiny bit" obsessive about this stuff.

Originally Posted by Duke21

..When you only send the sound out of the headphone socket you avoid cross talk and are only limited by the amp/DAC inside you iOS device and the fact that you are using this mini jack. But I think the Apogee Jam gives a very good compromise regarding price and simplicity.

My feeling exactly. The Jam sounds great, and hookup doesn't get any easier. For practice, travel, etc., the Jam is possibly the best compromise between performance and simplicity, right up there with the GuitarJack 2.

Originally Posted by Duke21

I think that the following solution will work very well and give you a very decent control over your tone:
Bass - Apogee Jam - iOS Device - headphone socket out - mini mixer - what so ever you want to connect to.
With good cables and a decent mini mixer you will not loose too much.

Agreed. The mixer gives you the extra drive you need in some circumstances. If it has both balanced and unbalanced outputs, it's even better.

But once you add in the extra wiring and expense of a mini-mixer or a mic pre to provide a better drive on the output side, then the simplicity advantage starts to disappear.

The big attraction to the Jam, is that all my cables and adapters for amp/PA output, iPad and iPhone, PLUS my in-ears, fit into a small zippered pencil case.

If I'm going to carry a bag for a mini mixer (or a mic pre) to get extra drive at the output, and start stringing cables and plugging stuff into the wall, then why not bring my laptop?

[adambomb]

Originally Posted by PrietoBass

I know you had mentioned which model... but could you post that again?

Of course it's:
Art USB dual pre

[steve_rolfeca]

Originally Posted by Duke21

Remember in a live mix ---- well how many will hear the difference??

It all depends on context.

For instance, everybody talks about noise and crosstalk when they look at the iRig. But there's also the matter of the fixed 100Hz high-pass filter on the input side of the iPhone headset jack.

If I'm playing my 4-string passive Jazz through the little cab I take to coffee house gigs, I could probably manage just fine with my phone and an iRig. But with a 5-string and my big rig, the difference between a low C via the headphone jack vs the 30 pin connector, is VERY noticeable.

As someone said in another thread last night, one man's floor is another man's ceiling. If you're:
- In clubs where there's a lot of audience noise
- Playing a 4 string bass
- In a band where everything is always on 11
- Going for a fairly compressed, overdriven tone

Then you can probably do just fine with an iRig and careful level matching. However, there's lots of music being played these days, that isn't at that end of the spectrum.

For example, I'm mostly playing in churches, with bands that have a big dynamic range. We turn on a dime from intimate ballad sections to full-on rock anthems.

Sometimes, it's like a classical concert- the audience is praying or just contemplating, the music is quiet and introspective, and you could hear a pin drop. Moments later, a few hundred people may be on their feet, dancing and singing at the top of their lungs, and you need to be able carry over the top of that.

I can't be adjusting my levels all the time to keep from clipping the input on big peaks, so I need lots of headroom. In order to get the clean, relatively hi-fi sounds I'm asked for across a wide range of levels, I play an active 5-string with a hot output, paired with 800-1000 watt amps and extended-range cabs. In that context, even small amounts of hiss and buzz are definitely not your friend, and the difference between a $40 DI and a $200 one is easily audible.

Thus, my interest in fancier gear, and my concern with what may seem like trivial differences.

[PrietoBass]

Originally Posted by adambomb

Of course it's:
Art USB dual pre

Thx!

[Duke21]

Originally Posted by steve_rolfeca

Them's fightin' words! After over 40 years as an electronics/audio geek, I like to think that I'm way more than just a "tiny bit" obsessive about this stuff.


My feeling exactly. The Jam sounds great, and hookup doesn't get any easier. For practice, travel, etc., the Jam is possibly the best compromise between performance and simplicity, right up there with the GuitarJack 2.

Agreed. The mixer gives you the extra drive you need in some circumstances. If it has both balanced and unbalanced outputs, it's even better.

But once you add in the extra wiring and expense of a mini-mixer or a mic pre to provide a better drive on the output side, then the simplicity advantage starts to disappear.

The big attraction to the Jam, is that all my cables and adapters for amp/PA output, iPad and iPhone, PLUS my in-ears, fit into a small zippered pencil case.

If I'm going to carry a bag for a mini mixer (or a mic pre) to get extra drive at the output, and start stringing cables and plugging stuff into the wall, then why not bring my laptop?

I considered the GuitarJack 2 as it gives a nice solution for both in and out sound from the iOS device, thus the DAC do the job both ways and you avoid going through the headphone socket. But it can only be used with iOS devices. And I've read some ware that the volume control is done by an additional app, so it sound less convenient to me.

[Duke21]

Originally Posted by steve_rolfeca

It all depends on context.

For instance, everybody talks about noise and crosstalk when they look at the iRig. But there's also the matter of the fixed 100Hz high-pass filter on the input side of the iPhone headset jack.

If I'm playing my 4-string passive Jazz through the little cab I take to coffee house gigs, I could probably manage just fine with my phone and an iRig. But with a 5-string and my big rig, the difference between a low C via the headphone jack vs the 30 pin connector, is VERY noticeable.

As someone said in another thread last night, one man's floor is another man's ceiling. If you're:
- In clubs where there's a lot of audience noise
- Playing a 4 string bass
- In a band where everything is always on 11
- Going for a fairly compressed, overdriven tone

Then you can probably do just fine with an iRig and careful level matching. However, there's lots of music being played these days, that isn't at that end of the spectrum.

For example, I'm mostly playing in churches, with bands that have a big dynamic range. We turn on a dime from intimate ballad sections to full-on rock anthems.

Sometimes, it's like a classical concert- the audience is praying or just contemplating, the music is quiet and introspective, and you could hear a pin drop. Moments later, a few hundred people may be on their feet, dancing and singing at the top of their lungs, and you need to be able carry over the top of that.

I can't be adjusting my levels all the time to keep from clipping the input on big peaks, so I need lots of headroom. In order to get the clean, relatively hi-fi sounds I'm asked for across a wide range of levels, I play an active 5-string with a hot output, paired with 800-1000 watt amps and extended-range cabs. In that context, even small amounts of hiss and buzz are definitely not your friend, and the difference between a $40 DI and a $200 one is easily audible.

Thus, my interest in fancier gear, and my concern with what may seem like trivial differences.

Good points.
Well I play a passive 4 string... With fairly much OD. I'm so used to listen to program rock were most play 4 strings and any lower note then the low E is done with a Moog Taurus

[adambomb]

I do believe that this being "the iRig" thread most of the thread would have been deleted by now by the IK forum moderators......thank you talkbass

[Duke21]

Originally Posted by adambomb

I do believe that this being "the iRig" thread most of the thread would have been deleted by now by the IK forum moderators......thank you talkbass

In the IK forum the mods will nuke us!

[Rip Topaz]

Originally Posted by Duke21

In the IK forum the mods will nuke us!

And have. Lol.

But more importantly, we have all gotten past the fact that yes, Irig sucks, but it CAN be made usable. And it has also driven us all to seek out better ways to make music on iOS.

Sometimes you gotta admit defeat before being able to rise above it.

[PrietoBass]

Originally Posted by Rip Topaz

...we have all gotten past the fact that yes, Irig sucks...

I knew it!!! I knew it wasn't my imagination or my ears. I'm NORMAL!!! This is like, closure for me, man! [crying].

[steve_rolfeca]

Originally Posted by adambomb

Of course it's:
Art USB dual pre

This is a straight "Class Compliant" USB interface. It's not made for IOS, so you need the CCK (Camera Conversion Kit, Apple's 30-pin to USB dongle).

Still, if you're on a budget, and if you don't mind carrying the CCK and using a piece of velcro or gaffer's tape to stop the CCK from randomly disconnecting itself, this a great way to get both your A/D and D/A conversion done outside of an iPhone or iPad.

At least in North America, ART products are widely available, and at our typical street prices, the cost of this AND the CCK is still less than an Apogee Jam. It uses standard USB cables (no weird proprietary connectors, like the Jam and the iTrack), and it's built for live work, with a rugged metal housing.

Like the Jam (and unlike the iRiff, Guitar Jack and iRig), this box will work with a laptop, as well as IOS devices. For apps that give you problems with latency when recording, it also has "direct monitoring", allowing you to listen to the input signal without any delay.

The noise levels and mic preamps aren't quite as good as the Jam, but they're still "CD quality", and you get two inputs for the price of one. Add in the fact that it has balanced in and outs and lots of headroom at both ends, plus phantom power and enough gain for condenser mics, and you've got a good value proposition going.

Because it can be run off a 9V battery, the ART can also be used away from AC power, just like the Apogee.

This is one of my biggest complaints about other bus-powered Class Compliant interfaces, like the Focusrite Scarlett 2i2/8i6, Mackie Blackjack, Alesis IO4/IO2, etc. By the time you get a small AC adapter, a USB hub, 2 USB cables, the CCK, and the interface hooked up, the plug-and-play aspect of IOS audio is pretty much forgotten...

[steve_rolfeca]

Originally Posted by Duke21

I considered the GuitarJack 2 as it gives a nice solution for both in and out sound from the iOS device, thus the DAC do the job both ways and you avoid going through the headphone socket. But it can only be used with iOS devices. And I've read some ware that the volume control is done by an additional app, so it sound less convenient to me.

It does look very attractive, but availability and pricing are problematic in Canada. There's a distributor taking their cut up here, and there aren't many dealers.

As a result, the GuitarJack is closer to $200 by the time you get it out the door, and it's hard to find one to try out.