Just What IS the "SansAmp Tube Emulation" Circuit?

[Bongolation]

Barta's concept has been on the market for just under twenty years and is certainly no deep secret to the industry (which has produced various clones) but I've never seen an overview technical explanation of the circuit for high-functioning users and techs.

Can anyone tell me what it actually is and how it works? I've found nothing in various search attempts. Links are fine.

As always, thanks for any helpful data!

[Nikoubis]

Pixies, mostly.

[Swift713]

Originally Posted by Nikoubis

Pixies, mostly.

Sounds more like gnomes to me.

[tomvelsor]

Just What IS the "SansAmp Tube Emulation" Circuit?

dead on. thats what it is.

[idoru]

I'd read recently that units like the Boss DynaDrive use envelope following to control gain levels. I wonder if there's a bit of that happening in the SansAmp - it would certainly account for the tube-like handling of picking dynamics (and also the graininess at the the end of decay on some units). I found the GT-2 schematic at TonePad but I don't know enough electronics to know an envelope follower circuit when I'm looking at one.

The rest of the magic is mostly just eq-curves - Barta spent a lot of time doing his homework.

c-

[fenderhutz]

A fancy word for tuned overdrive unless they have a digital chip in there.

[Bongolation]

Originally Posted by fenderhutz

A fancy word for tuned overdrive unless they have a digital chip in there.

The SansAmp is entirely analog, I believe.

[Bongolation]

Originally Posted by idoru

I don't know enough electronics to know an envelope follower circuit when I'm looking at one.
[...]
The rest of the magic is mostly just eq-curves - Barta spent a lot of time doing his homework.

Wow, that's a relatively simple circuit! I don't think I see an envelope follower circuit, either, but I'm not an EE.

At first glance, it just looks like a highly-evolved overdrive. I sure don't see anything patentable, either.

[Revmizery]

Originally Posted by Swift713

Sounds more like gnomes to me.

+1

yes the circuit is all analog. Who knows whats really going on in that box so I'm just sticking with the gnomes answer.

[mrkreuzschlitz]

I've never popped mine open but I think I will. More than likely, fancy overdrive.

And mines programmable too, so it'll look freaky to me.

[Johnny Crab]

Found using google.
It appears to be a similar setup to that used by the OLD Furman PQ3(before they upgraded it) which produced an amazing tube amp emulation when "set wrong" to overdrive sections. The PQ3 was used by the late guitar genius Shawn Lane who was in Black Oak Arkansas at one time. We(New Orleans band I was in) opened for them and saw what he used. After that, Marshalls were for appearance only and PQ3's with Crown power amps were used as our guitarists "changed" to Shawn's setup......

[Bongolation]

Originally Posted by Johnny Crab

Found using google.

A miracle in itself!

It appears to be a similar setup to that used by the OLD Furman PQ3(before they upgraded it) which produced an amazing tube amp emulation when "set wrong" to overdrive sections.

That's interesting.

So, what we're looking at is just a highly-evolved overdrive based on previous circuits?

Stuff like that puts the reflexive Behringer-bashing in perspective, too.

[syciprider]

Price and image are the what set Behringer and small builders of Muff clones apart as far as making copies.

[darkrider1]

Whatever is in it, it sure sounds good!

[Rickett Customs]

Originally Posted by Bongolation

Barta's concept has been on the market for just under twenty years and is certainly no deep secret to the industry (which has produced various clones) but I've never seen an overview technical explanation of the circuit for high-functioning users and techs.

Can anyone tell me what it actually is and how it works? I've found nothing in various search attempts. Links are fine.

As always, thanks for any helpful data!

I think that would all rely on a more technical person to obtain one, Reverse engineer it, for the purpose of this.

I ain't taking mine apart

I'm sure there are enough Fx-heads on this site, up to that task.

[Bongolation]

Originally Posted by syciprider

Price and image are the what set Behringer...apart as far as making copies.

It's substantially more positive than that (though Behringer's DI21 line are not close copies of the SansAmp).

The bashing (aside from QC gripes, which are valid) is nothing but gross ignorance -- technical, historical and legal.

I don't want to hijack my own thread (though given the number of content-free, class-clown posts that have accrued so far I probably can't damage it much more), but at some point I want to publish an article to the effect that musicians -- whether they ever use a piece of their gear or not -- should get down on their putty-red knees and kiss Behringer's feet, and why.

Anyway, they've changed the devices that they "copy" far more than the previous "originators" did when they tweaked someone else's previous design.

Given the cluelessness, credulity and lemming-like faddishness of musicians, along with the editorial prostitution of the gear mags' lying, puff-piece "reviews" (like Bass Player's favorite, "Cons: None"), every time some corporation's marketing department puts yet another idiot analog overdrive stomp on the market, you'd think from the hype that they'd created cold fusion and harnessed free energy.

Effects are almost always mere re-hashes and (at best) evolutions of previous designs in the public domain, if they're just not just simple cosmetic repackaging.

[SpankyPants]

Grumpy much?

If you like Behringer, that's fine. I've never had a Behringer product last very long, so it doesn't matter how much "better" they make their "clones," it's still a waste of money when the product breaks. That's also the reason why I've never bought a Line6 Modeler unit. Sounds great, breaks easy.

How much is a broken pedal worth? Not much. How much is a broken Behringer pedal worth? About nothing.

[CamiloDíaz]

boooooring....

I mean, how many more years the world of fx users could talk about Behringer? Use it or don't... Really, it's not the end of the world.

"every time some corporation's marketing department puts yet another idiot analog overdrive stomp on the market, you'd think from the hype that they'd created cold fusion and harnessed free energy."

I laughed my butt of with that one. Couldn't agree more.

[keb]

Originally Posted by Johnny Crab

Found using google.
It appears to be a similar setup to that used by the OLD Furman PQ3(before they upgraded it) which produced an amazing tube amp emulation when "set wrong" to overdrive sections. The PQ3 was used by the late guitar genius Shawn Lane who was in Black Oak Arkansas at one time. We(New Orleans band I was in) opened for them and saw what he used. After that, Marshalls were for appearance only and PQ3's with Crown power amps were used as our guitarists "changed" to Shawn's setup......

And, interestingly enough, Geddy Lee - a current SansAmp user - used to use PQ3's in his rig.

[mikeboth]

Originally Posted by Bongolation

It's substantially more positive than that (though Behringer's DI21 line are not close copies of the SansAmp).

Have you reverse-engineered one of these units? Please post a schematic.